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Someone had asked how we "Christians" support Donald Trump a while ago and honestly  ... I don't remember the answer I gave other than saying his policies outweigh what he says.  Well I read this and it really speaks my feelings better than I could ever. Karen is a gold Star mother. She is the mother of fallen Navy SEAL, Aaron Carson Vaughn (SEAL Team VI). On August 6, 2011 Aaron was killed in action in the Tangi River Valley of Afghanistan when a chopper (call sign Extortion 17) carrying thirty Americans was shot from the sky.

Sometimes God uses the no-nonsense, salty sailor to get the job done. Appreciating what the man is doing doesn’t mean we worship the salty sailor or even desire to be like the salty sailor. It doesn’t even mean God admires the salty sailor. Maybe He just knows he’s necessary for such a time as this.

I believe with all my heart that God placed that salty sailor in the White House and gave this nation one more chance in November 2016. Donald Trump is what he is. He is still the man he was before the election. And without guilt, I very much admire what that salty sailor is accomplishing.

He’s not like me. That’s okay with me. I don’t want to be like him. I will never behave like him. I know we’ve NEVER had a man like him lead our nation. It’s crazy and a little mind blowing at times. But I can’t help admire the ability he has to act with his heart rather than a calculated, PC, think tank-screened, carefully edited script. I still believe that is WHY he became our President and WHY he’s been able to handle a landslide of adversity and STILL pass unprecedented amounts of good legislation for our country AND do great works for MANY other nations, including Israel.

I’m THRILLED with what he’s doing for my nation, for the cause of Christ (whether intentional or unintentional, doesn’t matter to me), and for the concept of rebuilding America and putting her FIRST. I will not be ashamed of my position because others don’t see him through the same lens.

Should it matter to me if a fireman drops an f-bomb while he’s pulling me from a burning building? Would I really care about what came out of his mouth in those moments? Heck no! I’d CARE about what he was DOING. He wasn’t sent there to save my soul and I’m not looking to him for spiritual guidance. All I’m thinking in those moments is, “Thank you, Jesus, for sending the fireman.”

I’ll post this article below again for those who still might not understand me.

This man is crass. Okay. He’s not careful with what he says. Okay. You feel offended that he’s not a typical statesman. Okay. But he is rebuilding the nation my son died for…the nation I feared was on a fast track to becoming a hopeless cause. Forgive me if I’m smiling.

I don't foresee this going well. 

Which policies are you supporting?

* The policy of alienating all of our allies?
* The policy of sucking up to Russia?
* The policy of enriching the billionaires in this country?
* The policy of tweeting random crazy shit every night?
* The policy of golfing every weekend?

Short of the same tired rhetoric (Strong borders, make America great, jail crooked Hillary, Fake News! With Hunt!), what policies of his do you actually support?


Ya think? ;)

just a few off the top of my head

-Supreme Court Justices. That was my biggest issue with the election and he has done very well in his choices.

- Tax cuts for 80 percent of american households, simplified the tax code and the booming economy - The economy is doing great although all the talking heads predicted it would fail as soon as he was elected. The new attack is media constantly telling the public it will soon crash so they pull all their money and force the crash.  Unemployment is at record levels and welfare has fallen significantly

- strengthening our military and allowing the Generals to do what they need to do in order to be successful- check. This is also where you can add his regime is defeating ISIS.

-  He was tough on N Korea and regardless of what people may think is happening ... he has progressed more than any other president in this venture.

- He has been tough on China and Iran. We are being taken over by the Chinese and yet all leaders before him didn't seem to care.

- moved our embassy to Jerusalem just as so many before him had promised.

-Withdrew the U.S. from the expensive worthless Paris Climate Agreement

-reversed Obama's restrictions on the coal industry

-overhauling the  VA and giving veterans more options

'Fess up...you copied that directly from Fox News, right?

Donald Trump is the worst thing to ever happen to this country. Not just the worst President, but the worst thing. Worse than smallpox, worse than McCarthyism (Trump's distant forefather), worse than disco music or decaf coffee...

Well, the good news is that going forward, Democrats can put literally the worst person they can find in the White House, and when conservatives ask how the left can support such an America-hating Marxist traitor, we can just say, "Well, he signed a bill confiscating all guns and outlawing Christmas, so i don't mind that he had his mistress kidnapped and murdered by a drug cartel, because God, in her infinite wisdom, works in mysterious ways."

You can put down decaf coffee all you want, I'm with you on that one; but don't you dare put down disco music!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ult7qM-LTWk&t=0s&index=13&list=PLUFrRj_65PcN8gDy9ZeVm-SGQydnicDEU

Sorry to disappoint but I get to my opinions on my own. Fox News is way down the list of places I get my news. I totally get that they are just as biased as certain liberal media outlets.  More times than not I get news from local news, Daily Mail and MSN. I also typically take a peek at CNN to see what the latest Trump Anxiety Disorder is all about.  I'd be lying if I didn't admit I get a chuckle out of the liberal panic attacks over essentially nothing. 

Death to disco!

(...and to Ming!)

i actually have no problem envisioning how Christians can support Trump i think it's very logical

if you can let go of logic and rationality and be conditioned to accept religion, then i have no problem in believing that you can also let go of logic and rationality over something like Trump

i know it sounds condescending, but i don't have a better way of expressing that logical comparison

tl;dr for the original article:

Conservatives amazed to discover innovative new moral concept: "the end justifies the means"

Wait you mean the the daily mail,like the UK tabloid newspaper?  ???

I'm a Christian but that's not why I voted for Trump.

If Christianity was something you were considering as a quality in the last Presidential Election, then Hillary and Trump never should have gotten on the ballot.

I voted for Trump because he's a businessman.  We can argue about how successful he was but I feel like with the money problems this country is headed for, a businessman is a better choice than a lawyer.  Yes Hillary had experience both working with her husband as First Lady and as a Senator and as Secretary of State.  We can argue about how successful she was at any of those things.

Yes we're in a trade war.  Whether people realize it or not we've been in a trade war for more than 35 years.  First it was Europe, then it was Canada and Mexico and the Japanese, now it's China. 

I think it's a great idea to build a wall, I also realize that there are a lot of people who came here for a better life to provide for their families and aren't hardcore criminals.  It's not very practical to try and round up 11 million illegals or whatever the number is now.

Right now there's jobs out there.  That's a good thing.  Does minimum wage need to go up?  Probably. 

Yes he says things that make me cringe sometimes.  Yes I wish sometimes someone would take away his Twitter account.

I've also never seen more hostility aimed at a guy from the other party especially when we've had an election turn out similarly in history (See John Quincy Adams).

He's not the worst president ever elected (see 1852-1859) nor is he the second coming of George Washington.  Wait and see over the next couple of months.  The direction of this country is going to be largely determined by what happens in the midterms.  If there's a wave of one party or the other, either his agenda will go into turbo drive or be shut down completely.  If the numbers of representatives and senators in both parties stays largely the same, we'll probably be going along like we are now.  Either way most of us are still going to have to get up and drive to the same job in the morning and figure out what we're going to eat and how we're going to pay the bills.

I didn't vote for Trump because I'm a Christian. I was addressing those who ask how Christians could support him. If I was voting for the best representative Christian in the election then Trump wouldn't have been in the race. That did weigh into the primaries but unfortunately ... wasn't an option for the election.

The question is not, and never was, why people who always vote Republican voted for a Republican.  That is a dumb question with an obvious answer.

The question is why supposed Christians voted for Trump in the primary to begin with, and why they continue to support him now (instead of calling for a primary challenge from a non-terrible person).  Hell, even if Trump were impeached, that would just mean the devout & upstanding man of faith Mike Pence would take over.

The simplest answer to the second question is that "Christians" care less about their faith than their politics, and that they also care more about winning than their morals.  So now we are treated to inane pieces like the article cited in the OP, where "the end justifies the means" is treated like some sort of revolutionary new idea that no one has ever considered before.

Lol ... challenging the strength of our faith is a weak tactic. As I've stated previously ... Christians are in the minority as far as either party so Billy Graham will never get elected. We have to choose the lesser of two evils and the one who will support as much as our important issues as possible. For me ... the SC nominees were the most important issue of the election followed by who could help my wallet. He's done a fantastic job for both so I'm pretty happy.

I'm not voting for a priest, I'm voting for a President.  The days of politicians even pretending to be religious is long gone.  You'll get an occasional one here or there, but not like it used to be. 

ooohh My...You've said some crazy ass shit,but this one...
 ::) ::) I guess we could say the same thing, You guy's always act like you the marders as a tactic,on almost EVERY FUCKING ISSUE... ::) ::)

huh? I honestly have no idea what you are saying B.

Yo, I usually sit back and don't say anything on any of this stuff...sometimes I get in there like when we were talking about immigration.  Do you know the one factor I always see on this site here?  Using words like "deranged" or "you've said some crazy ass shit"  or some other insulting context when talking to CF, while the guy NEVER says anything like that.  You don't agree?  That's fine.  Keep it civil, but these little one off insults...That shit is getting really old.

CF I'm Sorry... :P Local problems with religious people lately...
Every American President,has been a christian,the overall christian affiliation has been overwhelmingly christians in 99% of All office holders elected in this country (Congress,Governors,etc).A higher majority than the religious breakdown of the general population.I get it the Bible says you will be persecuted for your faith, but the christians have ZERO problems weaponizing their faith as a tactic. (even when the issue isn't a religious one)

And CF I get it,you never have,but I'm surrounded by it...and people that do...

Swap out "martyrs" for "marders" there.

This explains the general election vote.  It does not explain how Trump won the GOP primary, and most importantly, it does not explain why you defend him today instead of asking for him to be replaced by a better Republican.

Gerald Ford faced a strong primary challenge.  GHW Bush faced a strong primary challenge.  The reason why Trump won't is because despite their crocodile tear protests, Republicans actually LOVE his complete disregard for moral norms.  He is what many of them wish they could be if they thought they could get away with it.

Do you mean stuff like this?


I'm fine with rubbin' is racin', and I'm fine with Let's be polite and respectful, but I tire of the conservative shell game of "Stop being such a snowflake" when they say mean things vs. "Stop being so uncivil" when we say them.

This sounds like a conspiracy theory that you're touting as fact.

Fair enough, you can cherry pick even though I see him constantly attacked by others.  I wasn't even including you Spider, you may play verbal gymnastics but you usually keep it civil.

Okay, I'm done playing white knight, let's ALL play by the rules.

I eagerly await your alternative explanation for why conservatives who held their nose and voted for Trump to stop Hillary continue to support him today instead of loudly calling for a primary challenge.

To take a page out of your book, I won't even acknowledge a discussion of your conspiracy theories you claim as fact.

I'm not asking you to.

I am asking you to explain the behavior cited in the OP and among many conservative Trump voters, where they bemoan his crass behavior but insist they had no other choice... while they fail to call for a better choice in 2020.

My explanation for that fact is that they actually love his behavior.  You believe that explanation is ridiculous and conspiratorial.  Fine.  So what is your superior explanation for the facts at hand?

I mean, you're a Trump voter, right?  Are you happy with him? If not, why aren't you calling for him to be primaried and replaced with someone who shares your values? We don't need to speak in abstract hypotheticals here.

^Again, I am not going to entertain your wild conspiracies, which are OPINION not FACT.  You continue to make these wild sweeping generalizations about Republicans.  Why don't you try reading something other than Huffington Post or Vox?

So wait: you think it's my opinion that there are Trump voters who are unhappy with his crass behavior but voted for him to block Hillary?  That's a "conspiracy theory" to you, even though CF and BigDaddyFin have already said as much in this very thread?

I actually figured to myself that you must have had some personal experiences when I read your response.

There are two issues with that and that I don't believe many who label themselves as Christians are actually Christian.I'm not to judge but the Bible says you can tell by their actions. Most people don't even tithe let alone put God first in anything else ... and that is the fruit of being reborn in Christ.

There are several passages about judging people ... especially those outside of the church. Paul (who wrote much of the New Testament letters) was specific about not judging those outside. In his letter to the Church of Corinth he was admonishing them for the things they were allowing in the church. in doing so he brought up about not judging those outside.  

1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

So if anyone tries "judging you" by using the Bible then you can tell them they need to go back read their Bible. The problem I have seen is that many people feel anytime the name of Jesus is mentioned that they are being "judged" or attacked and while it may feel that way it isn't true.  

Spider:  ...Republicans actually LOVE his complete disregard for moral norms.  He is what many of them wish they could be if they thought they could get away with it.

This is opinion.  This is what I quoted.  You are now adding things that I didn't address and making sweeping generalizations to create a narrative that wasn't there. 

I think the issue lies in this comment .. "while they fail to call for a better choice in 2020". Just because we aren't happy with some of his antics does not mean we throw him out. Ever heard the whole you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater? In all honesty .... I have no confidence that any other "Conservative" who would actually have a chance would be able to stand up to the attacks he is getting. If Pence would get the job we would certainly have a more moral President but I don't know that he would have the business sense and cohones to do what needs to be done. Trump couldn't care less about pissing people off, any people, to do something he feels is right. That aspect is very refreshing in politics.  

^

*Trump COULDN'T care less about pissing people off, any people, to do something he feels is right.

...continue.

***Thanks Tenshot! - CF

Just something to show some of the Trump media bias. CNN is headlining a story "A South Carolina company plans to lay off almost all its workers — 126 people — because of the Trump administration's tariffs.". Other media outlets are reporting that but they also have this story "US Steel planning to add more than 800 jobs this year because of Trump's tarriffs" and this "Despite uncertainty over the impact of tariffs for the past several months, Harley-Davidson is still adding approximately 400 positions to its assembly plant in Springettsbury Township, York County"  

Seems like there is almost always three sides to every story and each side latches onto the one that supports their already made up opinion.

Yes, that was my opinion.  And when you disputed it, I asked you (twice) to provide your own explanation for why conservatives are not calling for Trump to be primaried.  But all you want to do is keep shouting, "conspiracy theory!"

There's nothing to discuss.  Whether it was grammatical or intentional, I addressed an opinion of yours that read as fact.  If you want to continue the conversation I suggest talking to CF or maybe Pondwater, I have no interest.

So then why do so many of you make this big hand-wringing, pearl-clutching show about how he's not the Christian choice you would prefer but You Had No Other Choice To Stop Hillary?  I mean, you explicitly give up the game right here:


In other words, even if you had the opportunity to replace Trump with an upstanding, moral Christian - say, Mike Pence - you'd STILL prefer Trump!  So why even bother with the whole song-and-dance about how you had no choice?  Republicans LOVE the current choice, which is why Trump easily crushed all the other moral, upstanding Christians in the GOP primary.  Today's Republican Party values candidate morality less than they value aggressive confrontationism... to wit:

"But I can’t help admire the ability he has to act with his heart rather than a calculated, PC, think tank-screened, carefully edited script."
"Trump couldn't care less about pissing people off, any people, to do something he feels is right. That aspect is very refreshing in politics." (co-signed by another Trump supporter)

Note how neither of the above citations claim that Trump does what is "right," as most Trump supporters are unwilling to personally endorse his behavior.  They only claim that he does what HE feels is right... otherwise known as doing whatever you want to do.  And people who do whatever they want to do without caring about pissing people off are not a new development in society.  In fact, we have words to describe them:

Sociopath.
Asshole.

Trump didn't win "despite" being a sociopath.  He won because he's a sociopath.  That was the defining feature of his candidacy, and the reason why Trump voters continue to support him today.  And for those who claim that's a "conspiracy theory," your own words are the evidence.

I believe your statement is 88.2% accurate. The 100% accurate version would be:

* Trump COULDN'T care less about pissing people off, any people, to do something he feels is personally profitable.

;)

Point of order if I may...

Blocking Hillary WAS a secondary motivation, but I also said I prefer having a businessman run the country right now as opposed to a lawyer...

Just so my point doesn't get lost.

the only problem is that the country isn't a business and it's governed by laws .. so i think a lawyer would be better than a businessman for running a country

...and definitely better than a businessman who has spent most of his business career either declaring bankruptcy or filing frivolous lawsuits to avoid paying subcontractors.

Give him credit for being savvy though...at his current rate of Presidency for Profit, he'll probably be out of debt by the time his term is over.

It's kind of sad to me that you think all conservatives are Christians no matter how many times I have explained that they are not. No offense but you are one of the biggest preconceived individuals who stereotypes people I've ever known. You don't even pretend not to be.

I realize in an age where it's ok to say “Oh man it’s kind of sick how much joy I get out of being cruel to old white men,” or “White people marking up the internet with their opinions like dogs pissing on fire hydrants,” and#CancelWhitePeople but you really should try and pull your head out of the sand once in a while. Conservatives just like their liberal counterparts are made up of Christians, Atheists, racists, blacks, whites, Asians and even gays and lesbians. The percentages vary but they all exist and are only successful when they vote together.

It's true, though. You need to look at the laundry list of Republicans thrown in jail during Republican times in office for the opposite. It literally is fact.

I guess that would be me that you're describing. Not sure what religion has to do with politics and why people lump them together.

Anyhow, I would consider myself on the conservative/libertarian side of things. Do I think god actually exists? Probably not, but I can't say that as fact because I don't know. So in light of that I would consider myself an Apatheist/Apathetic Agnostic. I really don't give a shit either way because it doesn't matter. The only upside to god actually existing is me getting to meet him one day so that I can tell him to go fuck himself. >:D

I cited two quotes from two self-identified Christian conservatives who praised Trump for doing what he wants to regardless of whether it will upset other people.  It wasn't generic conservatives saying this; it was specifically Christians.  That isn't a broad brush, it's a pinpoint laser.

And I specifically asked you, a self-identified Christian, why (after the general election threat of Hillary was vanquished) you are not in favor of primarying Trump with a better person.  Your answer was essentially that a moral Christian replacement like Mike Pence may not be enough of an asshole to get the job done.  Again, no generalization here: I'm talking about YOU directly.

Then I guess it's a good thing that I didn't give anyone who would say that kind of stuff my vote for President of the United States, which puts me on significantly higher moral ground than you.

That's the thing: you don't get to point at the coarse words of random internet trolls as evidence of liberal depravity, because you saw someone that says things at least as bad and you decided that man deserved your vote for President.  And even more importantly: you still defend him today with the explicit rationale that his disdain for what other people think is a great thing.

Your hollow cries of the moral bankruptcy of the left fall on deaf ears.  Your standard-bearer - the leader of your party and movement - is no better than the worst liberal internet trolls.  And that's who you chose (and still support!) for the highest office in the land.

So riddle me this Spider. The single most important thing to me is that a conservative judge be seated on the SC and a better economy with less taxes. With that said ... who do I vote for? DT, or HC? It's the POTUS and not the lead pastor of my church in which case I'd leave the church if those were my two options.

Seems to me that most people who support Trump, like the lady whose letter I posted, admit he has many faults. Why is it that few on the other side can admit that some of the things he does is a positive?   I mean ... even CNN does that.
(https://s2-ssl.dmcdn.net/rdCVM/x240-ev5.jpg)

^^^ OK, here goes:

* I am happy to see that Trump is serious about illegal immigration...but not happy with the way that he's going about it.

* I am happy that Trump's Corporate Tax Plan incentivizes American companies to move their financial assets back to America...but not happy with the fact that every new business law he passes seems specifically targeted to give himself and his businesses more money.

Trump vs. Hillary is over, so that has no bearing on why you continue to support and defend him today. That's why the "I had to stop Hillary" argument sounds so insincere: if that were really true, now would be the best time for you to build up a primary challenge for Trump so you aren't forced into the same hellish choice in 2020. But you don't... so what does that say about your actual position on him?  At the end of the day, Hillary isn't a factor.  You support him because you want him in office.

As far as who you should vote for: your argument, as presented, is totally unconvincing.  If Alex Jones ran on putting conservatives on SCOTUS, would you also be forced to vote for him?  Is there any point where you demand basic social morality from your candidates, or would you put David Duke in the White House if you thought he would lower your taxes?

But I guess this is easier to accept if I say something nice about Trump, so here goes: his political ads are well-produced and use high-quality photos.  He also has a lot of people at his rallies, and he seems to sell a lot of hats.

Forget Trumps adultry for a moment.  I don’t understand how a Christian could be a republican. 

Jesus was pro-health care.  He wouldn’t want to repeal Obamacare, he would want to expand it.

You can’t read the Bible and conclude Jesus would be in favor of cutting food stamps and the school lunch programs.  The guy was really big on feeding the hungry. 

Check out what the Bible says about welcoming strangers.  It is diametrically opposite Trump’s immigration policy.

If Jesus was alive today he wouldn’t be a republican, it is highly doubtful he would even be a Democrat.  He would be a member of the Green Party.

Pro health care? He didn't even heal everyone and he could have. In fact he said there will always be sickness and disease until He comes back.

It's always amusing how non-Christians try to use the Bible as a weapon and they don't even know what it is talking about.

Mathew 10:14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet.

2 Thessalonians 3:10 New International Version (NIV)
10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

1 Thessalonians 4:11-12 to aspire to lead a quiet life, to attend to your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you. In this way you will live a decent life before outsiders and not be in need.

2 Thessalonians 3:11-12 We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies. Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat.

Proverbs 21:25 The craving of a sluggard will be the death of him, because his hands refuse to work.

Proverbs 18:9-10 Whoever is lazy regarding his work is also a brother to the master of destruction.

Mark 3:33  “Who is My mother, or My brothers?” 34 And He looked around in a circle at those who sat about Him, and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 35 For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.”


2 Corinthians 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?



I could go on but it doesn't matter. Jesus does command His people to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and take care of the sick but he doesn't tell you the government should make you do it. In fact ... one of Jesus' main themes is fighting the establishment (Pharisees) people who do the seemingly right things for the wrong reasons. 

I respectfully but highly disagree.  You are correct in that the United States is not a corporation in a structural or even maybe abstract sense but it still comes down to profit and loss.  Budget vs. Deficit.  Making profitable trade agreements vs. ones where you lose your ass. 

When dealing with a fictitious compilation of short stories from dozens of different writers, you're bound to have lots of contradictions...

I think it needs all to be successful. I've worked in and around government for many years. You can't run the government like a business (I've seen how that fails) but at the same time you have to balance things and negotiate like a business.

In case you're wondering what I mean ... here is an example.

In our County it costs $45 for a driveway permit. That covers a lot of scenarios but that's the price. This is what you get for $45.



1) An administrative assistant walks you through the application process
2) Administrative assistant accepts application and inputs all the information
3) An Engineer reviews the drawings, setbacks, drainage etc.
4) If approved, it goes to the Inspection department. If not it is returned and steps 1,2 and 3 are repeated.
5) Inspector goes to site to verify safety and the work before any concrete is poured. If everything is correct then he come back after everything is completed. If not, they return when things are corrected. So at least 2 trips and sometimes more.
6) If there is a an issue then the Chief Inspector will visit the site

Privatize that inspection and an Engineering firm would charge $700 to cover expenses. Governments cannot do that so they have to cover the fees in other ways.

We've had commissioners who thought you could just cut people to balance a budget and it doesn't work that way. You can't cut enough people or keep things running at a level you need.

But in privatization they at least cut the bureaucracy by combining 1&2 and eliminating a return in 4 because someone walked you through correctly.  ;D

Not really. You're actually giving both the resident and the AA too much credit. Typically the resident will have to take it home and work it out and most times they have never done anything construction related in their life.   Secondly ... if you're expecting an administrative assistant to know all the things that an Engineer or Inspector knows then they would paid much, much more. You wouldn't want to pay someone in that position to be that qualified.

I really wasn't giving them credit. I was just making a joke.

Sorry ... gotcha now.