The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Up until yesterday most enemy flags were banned with one exception.  The exception is now closed. 

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/06/05/bumper-stickers-t-shirts-confederate-flags-now-officially-off-limits-marines.html/amp?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR1l1sEdPR1GZrsy4mJ25-QYzkuDnLl9mi817wdpTBKlqmg9FkaS4jgUY7g
 

Good.

Next step is renaming the Army bases honoring traitors.  I'm sure there are plenty of loyal Union military leaders who do not yet have have bases named after them.

I've heard about the base renaming before, who knows if that would actually happen.

First off I have no issue with the military banning anything as they need to be at one with each other. Anything that separates is a distraction at best.

With that said ... in general society please explain the obvious hypocrisy to me. Why should a confederate flag be banned because of the way you interpret its meaning vs. people have to accept BLM regardless of how they understand its message? It's kind of like calling President Trump out for a "photo op" and then going hilariously overboard for your very own photo op just a few days later.  

You're going along so well in your first paragraph, and then...


...and there's the old CF, once again, trying to sell a shoe that doesn't fit.

LMAO ...  how doesn't it fit? It's the same exact situation.

Confederate Flag - Southern people say it means southern pride. Other people says it "only" means hate.

Black Lives Matter - Blacks and "woke" people say Black Lives Matter means "too". Other people say it sounds like you are saying "only" black lives matter. In fact the way we keep seeing all these white people forced into bowing and kissing black feet as they have racial slurs yelled at them ... it seems to mean something even much worse.

are the marines flying BLM flags ? I wasn't aware of that.

The stars and bars is also a flag of an enemy nation to the United States. It's a totem of the traitorous. It really should have no place anywhere in public display in the U.S.

I'm good with that.  Glad they are doing it.

It should not be displayed on a Marine base for the same reason one should not display a Nazi flag, a WWII Imperial Japanese flag, North Korea flag, Al-Qaeda flag or ISIS flag on a marine base.

Then I guess the Real Injustice is that nobody ever seems to get around to asking the people flying swastika flags if they are just celebrating their German heritage.

"Some people say the swastika is just an ancient symbol representing the sun.  Others say it stands for extermination of the Jews.  Why does one group get to decide what it means for everyone else? Obvious hypocrisy."

C'mon Fau ... I addressed that and then posed this question.

If it is so damn offensive why did it take until "woke" white people told them to be offended? In the 60's Chicago Black Panthers aligned themselves with a rebel flag flying group.

 (https://images.theconversation.com/files/151996/original/image-20170106-18644-176ytfk.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=445&fit=crop&dpr=1)

(https://images.theconversation.com/files/151989/original/image-20170106-18679-eh7vob.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=667&fit=crop&dpr=1)

Even now ... there are a lot of blacks who rock the flag. I've never seen a Jew rock a swastika and doubt any of you have either.

I don't know that "Some black people half a century ago were friends with people who flew the Confederate flag" is exactly the stinging rebuttal you might think it is.  You know there were actual Jews who joined the Nazis, right?

Nascar is even getting rid of the confederate flag. 

I have to wonder if that will last as they will lose fans way more fans than they l gain. They will lose the die hard Southerners and those who can't stand pandering to whoever whines the loudest. My social media is full of both. I don't see banning something that offends people who do not watch already will make them come out and suddenly become NASCAR fans. I guess it could happen as anything is possible but I just don't see it.

Another side effect will be when they try and remove people for having it. That's going to go over really well.

From a marketing perspective, get younger and more diverse whenever you can.  That's where money and the future is.  NASCAR will be fine.

i'm not for banning any flag in general society .. fly any flag you want.
i appreciate people flying confederate and nazi flags .. lets me know exactly who they are.

I would not be surprised if this was in fact a financial decision as in they have had potential sponsors say no because of the confederate flag and recently had existing sponsors tell them that they either need to change or lose the sponsorship. 

Since you know who they are. Who exactly are people who fly confederate flags

at worst they're white supremacists involved in violent oppression of minorities

at best they're idiots that don't know how those flags are seen in society

most people who would fly those flags fall somewhere in between those two extremes. Probably aware of how people see them, don't care about that perception. probably disagree about the characterization. might even think of it as PC gone amok and fly them to pwn the libtards.

wherever the truth actually lies, I don't wish to associate with anyone on that spectrum.

I agree.  Even though I'm fairly conservative on a lot of issues, the confederate flag has always made me uncomfortable and it isn't by accident that the people I choose to associate with are not the kind of people who would wave the confederate flag. 

I can appreciate that...but the question would be: Once the Confederate flag has been banned by NASCAR, how exactly do you suppose they could "un-ban" it in the future?



* edited to note NASCAR, since original post is on previous page

I had a Confederate flag all my life until some point in my 20s. It was ingrained in every part of our lives growing up in the south, many southerners discounted Florida by the way. There were sports mascots, monuments, and gift shops filled with items. At some point I realized people were no longer going to see me as proud of my heritage and they were going to assume the worst. I didn't want to be seen that way so I  got rid of it and haven't looked back.

I think that's the point, here.

Symbols change meaning over time.

I don't look at Lynard Skinnard pics in the 70s think how racist they must be.
But I also don't look at a big truck with a confederate flag flying off the back of it and think "wow, that guy really cares about states' rights."

See also: blackface

I think it's totally unfair to go after these old politicians who wore blackface to a party when they were in college.  But now, what we know about blackface and its social acceptance, I think that (unless the situation is special -- and there are a few), that if you willingly do it anyway, you're just being a racist asshole.

I don’t think the con flag has really changed meaning all that much.  It has consistently been used since the CW as a symbol of rejecting equal right for AA.  The folks hoisting it in 1965 to protest the CRA knew what it meant. 

Blackface has always been racist.

What has changed is racism is less socially acceptable.   

Hoodie, you are really looking at it incorrectly. You have no real reference and are talking out of your ass quite frankly. Some people definitely were what you describe but unless I'm mistaken you aren't of an age nor from a region where you can claim to have any understanding of how I and many other Southerners felt during those periods. I am in no way defending the racist views or use of the flag by others but don't pretend to know me and all the others from my generation and geographic location that have reached a new view about how you present yourself.

So if I understand the "Southern heritage" argument correctly, if I see a Confederate flag outside of the former Confederacy - say, in Michigan - does that mean it's clearly being flown by racists who have no such claim to respecting history?  Or is "Southern heritage" a vague and undefined catch-all available to anyone who has had any ancestor from the South EVER?

The people who fly Confederate flags outside of the former Confederate states use the exact same arguments in defense of it as people currently in the South.  So unless you're willing to declare that those guys are clear and unrepentant racists...

Let's try it this way. The war is over. The South lost. Get over it. Put the flags away.

Honoring Lee is the moral equivalent of honoring McVeigh or Tsarnaev.

A small semi-humorous aside (humorous to me anyway)... When I arrived at Fort Leonard Wood for basic training in 1982, we got off the greyhound bus in front of the post, and there were military buses (aka "cattle trucks") waiting for us.
 After they got us in formation, one of our Drills, a very large black SSG named Mack Chisholm (yes, like the trail) starts giving this speech about how racism doesn't exist in today's Army. He closed out his speech by saying

"There are no whites here, and there are no blacks here, you are all green to me!  Now, get on those buses... light greens in the front and dark greens in the back!"

The confederacy lasted 5 years.  It is not like Ireland with thousands of years and hundred of generations of ancestors. 

The TV show Cheers lasted twice as long as the confederacy. 

I was in elementary school for longer than the confederacy lasted.

Face it you aren’t honoring those five years of your great great great great great great grandfather’s life.  You like the white supremacy.

I wouldn't go quite that far.  I think there are some people whose great-grandparents enthusiastically embraced that flag 100 years ago for reasons, and then the grandparents and parents were raised to revere it (with the original meaning being deemphasized as time went on).

But if you won't acknowledge that the reason for the spread of that particular flag (which was NEVER the flag of the actual Confederacy) is specifically and exclusively white supremacy, then you're making excuses for racism because you don't care.

I'm just going to say this and move on. The US flag has flown over slavery way more than the Confederate flag. The US flag has been used for racist purposes, the Bible has been used for that and even war. The garb for which the Democrats used in their publicity stunt photos is from Ghana Africans who actually sold slaves to the US and other countries.

What I'm saying is we can never get rid of everything that has negative past and by doing so we'd have to get rid of everything. As adults we need to move on and use history lessons to grow from ... not run from.

When there was a civil war to determine whether slavery would be allowed to continue in this country, the Stars and Stripes were on the side that wanted to abolish slavery.  So you're going to have to do better than the whataboutism of saying, "The US flag also stood for slavery."

You make a valid point (I can't believe I said that), but it could be argued that changing could be construed as "growing from history's lessons" and not changing could be construed as "running away (or at least hiding) from them.

The tired old Jefferson owned slaves too argument.  Nobody has ever put up a monument to Jefferson to honor his slave owning, it was for writing the declaration of independence.  Lee is being honored for committing treason and terrorism against the USA.  

If you are willing to have a statute of Lee then have one of McVeigh as well.