The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

The draft is over and for us, it was just a 2 day event. To recap:

1) We drafted Jaylen Waddle at 6 who is a phenomenal player.
2) We drafted him because we missed out on Pitts and Chase due to our trade back and trade up
3) We then drafted Jaelen Phillips who is a beats on the field but comes with significant injury concerns
4) In the 2nd round we got Jevon Holland at safety who can play other positions too. This was needed because our safety unit was in the Bottom 10 of the league last year, plus it makes other players expendable which creates cap room.
5) We then traded up to select Liam Eichenberg at LT/RT/RG/LG. Very versatile player who will probably be either our Day 1 RT or RG if we stick with Hunt.
6) Our last significant pick was TE Hunter Long who can be our starter if Gesicki wasn't on the roster, but as it stands that is insurance if Mike leaves but we can do a 2 TE attack as well with him.

It's been debated to death but I would rather have stayed at #3 and taken Chase/Pitts than acquire Waddle, the Niners 3rd rounder next year and their 2023 1st rounder which probably will be in the 20's. However, that doesn't mean Waddle isn't awesome and won't make our offense much better.

I am glad we didn't take a RB because one of those without an O-Line is worthless, but I wish we took a center. We didn't address every need in free agency and the draft but we got at least 4 Day 1 starters with our first 4 picks and maybe even went 5 for 5. It's hard to think we aren't a much better team now.

With all pre-draft trades thrown into the mix, I would give our draft a B and over a short amount of time, it might become an A.

I think there is a misconception that Miami moved from #3 to #6 because they thought they could still get either Pitts or Chase at #6, it's obvious now that's not the case. The reality is that Miami moved from #3 to #6 because they WANTED Waddle and figured they could get him at #6 which they were right about. If you believe that Miami WANTED either Pitts or Chase, then they would have NEVER moved from #3 because they were guaranteed to get whichever one they wanted at #3. Now you can be upset about that decision, but that's what they wanted to do so criticize the decision but not the thought process behind it. They WANTED Waddle, not Chase or Pitts or at the very least they WANTED Waddle plus the 49'ers 2023 #1 pick over Chase or Pitts. No one can say whether that was the right choice or not yet, but I'm willing to let things play out. I do think that Waddle is a better fit for Miami then Chase would have been. I would have taken Pitts over Waddle but I can see the thought process. They both are weapons in the middle of the field. Pitts is more of a move the chains and redzone target whereas Waddle is more the home run threat. Either is a HUGE upgrade over the slot receivers on the team and Gisecki is a pretty decent target himself. Waddle and Gisecki might be better then Pitts and Gisecki. I can see that. I think Miami is fine with having Devante Parker, Preston Williams and William Fuller at the other WR positions.

The other misconception is that Phillips comes with significant injury concerns. The reality is that we are talking about 3 concussions that happened over 2 years ago, one of which was not football related. He had 2 concussions that were football related, but since that time he has not had a concussion, just played a full year injury free and is completely healthy now. Some people are criticizing this pick because those concussions were overlooked and yet they were ok with overlooking the fact that Tua was coming off a much more serious injury that kept him out the previous year and he was still recovering from that injury at the time he was chosen. Get real. Phillips injury history is minor compared to Tua's when he was drafted.

I think Mel Kiper put it best:





Miami Dolphins: A

Top needs: DE, WR, OLB

The Dolphins came into this draft with an extra first- and-second-round pick (added a valuable 2023 first-rounder) and had clear needs to fill. They had to get some receiving help for Tua Tagovailoa. They needed a young, talented pass-rusher to put into their edge-rushing rotation. And if they are going to move Robert Hunt to guard full-time, they had to draft a potential starter at offensive tackle.

That's why I like what general manager Chris Grier did. Tagovailoa struggled as a rookie last season, but there should be no way he averages 6.3 yards per attempt again in 2021. The addition of No. 5 overall pick Jaylen Waddle (and free-agent signing Will Fuller V) means he now has multiple playmakers to run after the catch and to target on deep balls. Waddle was the fifth-ranked player on my board. Jaelan Phillips (18) is a silky-smooth edge rusher with the physical traits to average 10 sacks per season. As I wrote Thursday night, he likely would have been a top-10 pick if he didn't have an injury history.

I really liked their Day 2 haul as well. Jevon Holland (36) will compete to start at free safety. Liam Eichenberg (42) has a good chance to be their Day 1 right tackle in place of Hunt; he was a three-year starter at left tackle for Notre Dame. Tight end Hunter Long (81) is an awesome player who will compete as a blocker and catch a few passes up the seam. He's one of my favorites in this class, and he's a nice complement for Mike Gesicki, who had 703 receiving yards last season.

Grier didn't have any picks in Rounds 4, 5 or 6, but seventh-round pick Larnel Coleman (231) has a chance to stick on the team as a swing tackle. I thought he might go in Round 5.

Looking at this roster, I don't think it's far away from being a Super Bowl contender, and the Dolphins hit their major needs. The other major bonus is that they ended up moving down three spots from No. 3 after some maneuvering and picked up that 2023 first-round pick. This is a stellar class overall, and the AFC East is going to be a fun race in 2021.

Wow we really did that? So much for us wanting them...  :P ;D

Jesus, how the hell did I type that by accident?

Your spellcheck is twisted  ;D ;D

I don't think it is a misconception, I think we were comfortable with Waddle if he fell to us but no GM on the planet had Waddle above Chase and probably not Pitts either. They wanted Chase first but once Cincy decided that Joe Burrow needed more leg injuries, we picked Waddle. I look forward to watching him play for us but I think Chase will have the better career.

I think it's very possible that Grier thought Waddle would be a better fit for Miami then Chase and possibly Pitts. Not necessarily better player, but better fit. We already have a pass catching TE, the argument can be made that Pitts wasn't really a good fit in Miami because we really didn't need 2 pass catching TE's. I think the fact that Tua played with Waddle and brought the much needed seperation/yards after catch threat to the slot position will really help Tua, maybe even more then Chase would have. You may not agree, but I think that's a reasonable argument. Would they have taken Chase or Pitts if they were there at #6, perhaps but I don't think they were counting on it, in fact I think the assumption was that they wouldn't be and they were ok with that because they were targeting Waddle there.

I will grade this draft two years from now. 

But how many GMs would have Waddle and another first rounder over Chase or Pitts by themself? You continually don't write the full equation.

To be fair he was responding to my comment where I was making the argument that Grier might have thought that Waddle was a better fit in Miami then Chase or Pitts. The fact we got another #1 out of the deal was just the icing on the cake.

Your argument hold water better had we not drafted a tight end that can catch.

Well he's a much more accomplished run blocker then either Gisecki or Pitts, that was the reason he was chosen. 2 TE sets with Gisecki and Long is more versatile then Gisecki and Pitts, you could run or pass out of that set. Perhaps they had Long in mind when deciding if they wanted to take Pitts and perhaps they thought 2 TE's that can't block is a bad idea.

I liked Miami's draft .. I think they did really well. I think we have tons of weapons now.

Aren't we getting Albert Wilson back too ?

I REALLY REALLY REALLY like the jaelen phillips pick, I think he's going to be impactful on D.

And from what I read about Holland . .his closest comp is Minkah Fitzpatrick .. if that tells you what grier is thinking

B+. I think Tua wanted Waddle and it should work out, Phillips stays healthy and we can have a pass rush that will win us games.

I tend to agree that staying put for Pitts or Chase would have been better, but we got an extra 1st and a great player anyway. I hope the run game doesn’t suck again and we don’t end up regretting not getting a RB but we are undeniably better than last year.

As long as Tua can rise to the occasion I think we’re the closest we’ve been to true success in years. Maybe closest since I’ve been a fan in the mid 90s.

It's a 2023 1st rounder from a very talented team as it stands. If we asked Cincy right now or right before the draft to give us Chase in exchange for Waddle and that 1st rounder, they would tell us no. Atlanta would do the same with Pitts.

It's 2 years from now, it is certainly valuable to have that extra pick but I would rather give it back in exchange for picking the guys we really wanted. Grier was just comfortable with several options so he took it. He probably doesn't have many regrets.

This draft is funny in that it's being rated by analysts the complete opposite of what the fans are rating it. Seems like every fan is annoyed we didn't pick a RB while every critic is grading us B+ or A. Cumulatively, we have a Top 5 draft from the "experts".

I was thinking the same thing.  Pretty much all of the "expert" analysts that I have seen rated the Fins draft very high.  While a lot of the fans seem to think it was awful or at least mediocre. 

I was kind of iffy on Waddle at first, but then I look at him like a Jarvis Landry only with speed and big play ability after the catch.  Consider an improved O-line (both draft and maturity of players from last year) that can give Tua time, line up Gesiecki, Long, Waddle, Parker, & Fuller and there is no way a defense can cover all of them (on paper at least).  A successful air attack can open up the run game for even average RB's.  And the defense was improved if the two players drafted pan out.  On paper it was a great draft, it addressed many of the Dolphins' needs; and that's all you can hope for at this point.

I'm ok with the draft but very disappointed we didn't get a RB. Word is they wanted Javonte Williams from NC but Denver traded up and took him right in front of them. Hence we took best player available and went with a safety and then traded up for a LT.  I'd have been ecstatic if we would have gotten a good RB instead of adding another safety.

I just feel you can plug in a lot of guys at RB as long as your line and offense is up to speed. If they aren't, just doesn't matter who you got running the ball, they will not succeed. Williams has Bridgewater or Lock at QB, so let's see if I am right and he averages 3.6 YPC behind those two terrible QB options.

That "word" was likely just bullshit.  It's based off an AFCE rival of ours calling the Broncos and thanking them for "sticking it to us so we couldn't draft Williams".  The same story said we stuck it to the Broncos because they wanted to trade up and get Phillips.  As far as drafting a RB, I'm more likely to believe this:

[Mike Hernandez] An ESPN reporter who has close contact with sources inside the #MiamiDolphins organization told me that the team was going to draft S Jevon Holland regardless if RB Williams was there or not. Also makes sense, seeing as how the Fins turned in that card so quickly.

We turned in the Waddle card quickly too, so Sewell was never an option.

The "word" came directly from the (horses's?) mouth of Broncos GM George Paton (well most of it the guy who was with him at the time):

https://www.nfl.com/news/john-elway-s-mile-high-torch-pass-inside-the-first-denver-broncos-draft-run-by-g

As you said, he also mentioned that they had plans to move up to get Phillips towards the end of the first round, then we took him at #18 and they lost out on that one.

FWIW I have no reason not to believe that the Broncos had some kind of intelligence that we were going to take Williams at #36 and traded up in front of us to get him. It's just as question as to if their intel was misguided (either wrong, or we had changed our mind sometime between free agency and day 2 of the draft) or we missed out.

We did pull the trigger very quickly on Holland straight after, so at the very least he was the very next player on our board - that or we did not plan on taking a RB at all (we clearly did not rate any RB after Williams right up until our last pick in round 7, which you would call at best speculative, at worst taxi squad fodder or a camp body).

My meaning is the "word" came from other teams, so it was likely bullshit:

After getting some intel from an unnamed source that the Dolphins, who were four spots in front of Denver, were planning to select Williams, Paton hastily negotiated a trade with the Atlanta Falcons to jump one pick ahead of Miami. Another rookie GM, Atlanta's Terry Fontenot, asked Paton for a fourth-round pick; Paton agreed but successfully pushed for Atlanta's pick near the end of the sixth round in return, telling Fontenot, "Come on, Terry -- this is a great deal."

Shortly after swooping in and taking Williams 35th overall, Paton got a text from a person in the draft room of one of the Dolphins' AFC East rivals congratulating him for thwarting Miami's plans.


Like I said, I'm more likely to believe this:

[Mike Hernandez] An ESPN reporter who has close contact with sources inside the #MiamiDolphins organization told me that the team was going to draft S Jevon Holland regardless if RB Williams was there or not. Also makes sense, seeing as how the Fins turned in that card so quickly.

#6  -  WR Jaylen Waddle - I was as bummed as you guys when Pitts-Chase went #4/#5, but give Miami credit for sticking to their plan to get Tua a true #1 WR to help his development. I would have gone Sewell in this spot, but Waddle was still a quality pick, and he definitely has the kind of speed that can make things interesting.  B+

#18  -  DE Jaelan Phillips - Love the talent...concerned about the concussions and the aspirations to be a Rap-God, but no arguing the guy's ability to abuse QBs. If his health holds, Miami got a great edge rusher who should make an immediate impact.  A-

#36  -  S Jevon Holland - My favorite Dolphins draft pick comes in round two. Within his first 2-3 seasons, Jevon will make it to a Pro Bowl and have proven himself as the best free safety in this class, bar none. I really hoped that my 49ers would draft him, but Miami beat them to the punch. At least I still get to cheer for him, even if he is wearing the wrong colors. ;)  A+

#42  -  OT Liam Eichenberg - Solid pick, excellent numbers as a pass-blocker...run blocking seems like it is still a work in progress. There were still two OT's on board that I would've grabbed before Eich, not to mention the SS Moehrig and OC Creed Humphrey.Not sure that dealing a future 3rd rounder to move up for him was the best move, but if he helps keep Tua's uniform clean, all is forgiven.  B-

#81  -  TE Hunter Long - Scratched my head hard enough on this pick to leave a mark. Maybe he impressed Flores while on his Senior Bowl roster or something, because I'm not so sure that Miami really needed another pass-catching TE at this time. When this pick came up, I had fingers crossed that Miami would take either OG Quinn Meinerz or ILB Baron Browning.  C-

#231  -  Larnel Coleman - No clue whatsoever...had never heard his name before Miami made the selection. I do like long-armed OTs, so hopefully he can develop into something useful for the O-line.

#244  -  Gerrid Doaks - And again...no clue whatsoever. Miami needed a RB, so I guess it's a positional fit. I like the fact that he is a power back, rather than some 185 lb scatback, but who knows if he even makes the roster.

Overall grade: B+   If Waddle turns out to be more productive than Devonta Smith, or Phillips reaches the ceiling on all that potential, this could easily become an A grade.





edited to remove note at bottom

Also if we're talking about playing someone or being played. Atlanta, who traded out of the 35 pick with denver ended up selecting a safety with the pick they received.  I would like to think that Atlanta got played

The word I heard it from was Joe Rose. Radio broadcaster and best friends of Dan Marino, Nat Moore, Kim Bokamper and many others who are inside the Dolphins' organization where he also works. He also said, just like every other GM in history, Chris Grier would never admit it publicly. I'd take his word over any other "outside" source any day.

Waddle and Patrick Surtain Jr were roommates and are best fiends. Waddle spent a ton of time down here staying with "Uncle Pat" Patrick Surtain Sr. so the Dolphins literally had an inside track on him. Surtain is head coach at American Heritage in Plantation (which is next to Dolphins training camp) and helped train him after his injury. From everything I've heard anyone say he really was their guy.

After a few days more thought, it's still really hard to grade this draft right now. I'd probably go a cautious B, with room to move either way.

What I liked...

Ok, we identified Waddle (or maybe Pitts or Chase) was our first pick, so after the Niners blockbuster trade we had to go back up to get him - none of the top bracket of WR prospects (including Smith) would have lasted until #12. Whether I agree or not, that's what we decided, and if that's the case, then it had to be done regardless of what's forgone. It will always be a loaded question drafting a WR this high, will it be a Julio Jones or A.J. Green, or one of the many flameouts the Raiders have made over the years? Considering we already had added Fuller, we could have picked up an additional gem further down in this deep WR draft and addressed something else, but still I love the conviction in how they did this.

Also, the skill sets of the players we picked were very high for our 2 upper round players, there's no way I can argue with that. Phillips addressed a key area of need and arguably had one of the best pro day showings and final year leading up to the draft. There is a measured risk, and concussions have become a much bigger factor than previous years because of time off the field while playing because of assessment (let alone the horrible effects after football). It's an area both NFL (and AFL here in Australia) are taking very seriously, and that has to be a consideration in drafts going forward. The good news is that most of Phillips issues were pre-Hurricanes - hopefully they are all over with so he can dominate.

I think I have mentioned earlier I like the philosophy in regard to OL - go cheap (as in $$$) and go often, and we have done that again in the offseason and draft. IMO we did really well to find three starters last draft (Jackson, Kindley, Hunt) who did a great job at the edges, especially in pass protection. We moved up to get got one of the better prospects in the 2nd round and picked a promising roughie bet in the 7th round. Flowers had one of the better years of his career for us at guard, yet I can't help think we are better off replacing him with one of these guys and/or Fluker who we got in FA. After being a major problem for what seems like forever, at last the OL finally looks like something where we have talent and depth for a while.

Likewise on my wish list was a possible upgrade at Safety from McCain - Holland could well be that guy, although I didn't anticipate it would be our first pick in the second round of this draft! To tie in with the above pick of Phillips, will an improved DL rush and upgrade at safety eliminate the headaches we have had covering damaging TE's for what it seems like an eternity?

Things that made me go, hmmmm....

Picking Hunter Long. Okay he's the second TE on the board (77 places after Pitts - man, that's a huge drop off in TE selected!), but was he really an area of need? We already have Gesicki, Smythe and Shaheen who seem to already have a good chemistry with Tua - between guys who with sticky hands that can catch in traffic, and red zone targets, I thought that was well covered. Sure Gesicki and Smythe come out of contract at the end of 2021, but if they prove their worth then stop bitchin' and get out the cheque book Ross! A young, second year QB needs his safety net, it's too soon to pull it away...

Speaking of which, that old chestnut - the RB position. I hope some of you guys can understand that some fans like me thought it was a priority, partly because leading up to the draft it certainly also looked like it to the Dolphins hierarchy. Last year we brought in Howard, then admitted we missed out on our guy in the draft and traded for Breida. Howard was a big, fat bust (and was cut), Breida has been a disappointment. During the offseason, we had "mutual interest" in Aaron Jones before he resigned with the Packers. So leading up to this draft, it was pretty clear landing a stud RB would be the go, right? Apparently not now - to quote a previous post here by EDGE, after the draft Flores said that the addition of Waddle and Fuller will greatly improve our rushing offense, because the defense now can't crowd the line for fear that Waddle and Fuller will blow right by them. Hmmm... I can't say I agree with that philosophy, and I think it will heap an additional amount of pressure on our 2nd year QBs shoulders instead of doing the opposite. Oh, and if we quietly sign up or trade for a RB before the season (for example like Duke Johnson, AP, etc) then that's an admission in itself.

Linebacker was another area I was worried about with the loss of Van Noy and we passed on literally every LB available in the draft, but maybe the additions of Phillips and Holland with a tweaked hybrid structure will more than cover for this? I think like most of these selections it's a case of wait and see how it pans out, and we will know soon enough.

I agree with you on Waddle, we had to trade back up for one of the top WRs and I'm glad we got him.  The more tape I watch on him, the more I like him better than the other receivers in this draft.  Maybe I'm justifying it, but I love his speed, agility and hands.

Philips has the talent to be one of if not the best EDGE in the league, that's how good he is.  The concussions are concerning though.  If he busts, it won't be because of lack of talent or effort.

I like our OL, I agree with you there.  The fact that just about all of them are so versatile is good too.  Hunt can play guard or tackle, Kindley can play both guard positions, Davis can play everywhere and even got practice at center, Eichenberg can play tackle or guard, Dieter can play guard or center (although it's to be seen if he even makes the team this season).

Holland is arguably the best safety in the draft, the fact that he can play nickel and safety is probably why we drafted him.  He has a lot of talent, and while I didn't like the pick at the time, once I looked into him some more I was very happy we drafted him.  It's not a bad thing when experts compare you to Minkah Fitzpatrick.

The reason we picked Hunter Long is in case we don't resign Smyth or Gesicki.  Their contracts are up after this season, and TE has shown to take a year or two before they shine.  Hunter Long can be that Travis Kelce type that can do everything including block very well.  At the very least, he'll be a solid pass catcher that can move the chains and open up holes in the running game.

I'm not too worried about the RB position.  Gaskin has shown he can be a pretty good running back in a rotational situation.  Him as RB1 (lightning) and Brown as RB2 (thunder) with possibly Ahmed progressing is good enough with our new deep threats opening up the offense preventing teams from stacking the box.  Don't forget about Doaks either, the guy we got in the 7th round.  He's a big boy at 230+lbs, I wouldn't be surprised to see him replace Brown next season.  Gaskin was a 7th rounder that is now our starter, why couldn't we hit on another 7th round RB?

I wouldn't worry about LB too much.  Van Ginkel will replace Van Noy, he played better than him last season anyway.  Phillips will be the other outside LB.  That leaves Baker and McKinney in the middle, plus we have some depth behind them.

I think everyone is badly missing on the Long pick. I thought this was actually a very good choice. We NEEDED a blocking TE that can catch passes too. We had TE's that can catch and we had TE's that can block, we didn't have a single one that could do both. Long can. Like Fuller and Waddle he upgrades the running game AND the passing game. I think some of you will be surprised about this pick. He's NOT just a replacement IF Gisecki or Smythe leave, he will have a big impact on the offense THIS year. I loved the draft and most of the experts did too. We could all be wrong, but I think it's unlikely.

I agree.  A lot of the "experts" had Long as the 4th or 5th best TE coming out this year.  And I think his pass catching is actually ahead of his blocking.  He is a pretty good blocker, but I think he is a better pass catcher than a lot of people on here are giving him credit for.  He is pretty slow, but with Waddle and Fuller we now have a couple burners who can stretch the defense, potentially opening up a mid range "free zone" for Long.  I also think that picking him might have at least partially been as a backup plan for if they don't keep Gisecki after his contract is up.  Fun fact, Long actually led Division I in receptions for a tight end last year, surpassing even Kyle Pitts.

Saw this today. Doesn't really mean much unless they come through but nice to know others saw our picks as being pretty valuable.


Armando Salguero
@ArmandoSalguero
·
May 24
The Jaguars apparently gave Dolphins WR Jaylen Waddle the same draft grade they gave QB Trevor Lawrence. And they gave Dolphins DE/LB Jaelan Phillips a higher draft grade than Jets QB Zach Wilson.

It's good to know that another team ranked Waddle that highly and I do think Jaelen will have a better career than Wilson, but Waddle on par with Lawrence? That's madness.

Consider the source.
How much confidence do you place in the Jaguars' scouting staff?

What do you mean? They just find their next Tight End in the Mets minor league system!

"X" said our uniforms are great. **** que someone telling me that X has the worst taste of clothes in the world. LOL ... I really love that some people's only goal in here is to basically tear down the posts that are made but add nothing to the conversation. That's sarcasm by the way.

CF, I have just one question for you:

Would you give Trevor Lawrence and Jaylen Waddle the same draft grade?

This is not a trick question.

^^^^  You can't grade anybody right now because the season has not started

I would assume they grade by positions meaning having Waddle and Lawrence the same just means they are the top of the class at their position. If that is the case then I could see someone doing just that.  In all honesty I didn't watch enough of all three top receivers to distinguish between them.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with you.  I'd even take it a step further and state that you can't grade anyone until they have had at least one year in the NFL.  Unless the person is just a complete washout from day one of camp. 

He said "draft grade"...and every player had a draft grade.

Ah, my bad.  I interpreted his comment differently. 

Yup.