The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Who wins tonight?

I'm going with Cincy, 27-24

I think Rams win 34-30

Going bold and saying Cincy in a blowout. I think Stafford implodes and throws 3 picks.

I think it will be close and relatively low scoring - it's the way the Bengals games have gone so far in the playoffs.

I give Cincinnati the edge because I just don't trust Stafford, or their head coach for that matter - and yeah, if either/both of them have a mental meltdown, like Edge said this could be an unexpected blowout.

Bengals 23
Rams 17

Bengals blew it because Joe Burrow decided to pussyfoot around in the third quarter rather than throw the ball

There are a few other things... the four and out from midfield in the first quarter was idiotic. They were struggling with short distance gains, and their defense was basically in a prevent mode all game not to give up the big play. The Rams had a short field after the turnover, and sure enough they took advantage of it for their first TD. They only got to the Superbowl thanks to opposition coach brain fades in the last two playoff games, so I guess it was time for Zac Taylor to do something incredibly stupid.

Then there's the poor discipline. Not many penalties, but my word some of them were incredibly stupid and costly. That dickhead in street clothes who ran on to the field to celebrate the INT should be fired by them immediately.

Plus a special mention to the Refs for managing to stay out of the game up until the last two minutes, and then taking it all over.

If they're going to throw the flag for holding and PI there, they should have done it all game (or kept the flags in their pockets all game). Ramsay should have been called for tugging the jersey on the battered pass in the end zone before the Bengals had to settle for a FG. On the other hand Ramsay should have been the beneficiary of an OPI/face mask and the long TD pass to Higgins nullified. These two big missed calls on their own nullified each other and aren't a big deal if the Refs continued to let it all go... but they changed their mind 58 minutes into the game.

And throwing the ball on 4th and half yard at the end of the game was even more stupid.   

Bengals only offseason priority is fixing that O-Line.

BTW, every ranking I saw has our O-Line much worse than Cincy's. That tells you how bad we are.

Last 2 minutes were a joke and combined with the terrible 4th and short play call by the bengals with a chance to tie, well it does support my thinking that all this is just pre determined entertainment.

At least wrestling has steel chairs.

1) Let's start with the decision making of both KC in the AFC title game and Cincy in the Super Bowl.  Both teams went for it when in one team's case, they could have kicked an easy field goal, and in another team's case, it was fourth and one.  

When I play armchair coach, in decisions like this, I think about what my opponent would want, then do the opposite.   In KC's case, the Bengals would want them to try the field goal because it ensures that the game will remain a two score game.  Therefore, I don't have a problem with KC trying for the touchdown and attempting to make it a three score game.

The Super Bowl decision is more tricky.  I think the Rams want the Bengals to go for it there because it gives them a chance to get a huge momentum turning stop, and even if they get it, the absolute worst case scenario is that the Rams are down only one score.

2) I had no problem with the no call on the jersey tug by Ramsey.  Jersey tugs exist and are called on a spectrum,  Referees will often let a jersey tug go if it does not significantly affect the receiver.  I can cite PLENTY of examples of jersey tugs not called.

3) I have several questions about the no-call on the Cincy touchdown

a) Which penalty should have been called.  OPI?  Face Mask? or Both?

b) If a face mask penalty was called, where would it have been enforced from?  The line of scrimmage since he committed the penalty before he caught the ball?  The spot of the foul?

4) That holding penalty at the end I felt should not have been called.  I wanted to see a better replay of the play.  I am not even sure the contact happened before the ball was released.

I think refs have human tendencies to make calls like that to infuse excitement into games.  I call them EI calls.  Making that call allowed for a more exciting conclusion.  However, this is wrong and should not happen.

5) How come nobody jumped all over DownUnderDolphin for talking about the officiating?  Is there a rule on this board that I am the only person not allowed to discuss officiating without getting crap?

(https://i.imgur.com/R62OYua.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/UZCRSyZ.jpg)

That meme is sacrilegious.  Fail, you,  that is why.  If you are going to invent Yoda quotes, please do so you proper Yoda grammar.   

Hoodie, have you seen the movie in question?  It's a direct quote.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLrpBLDWyCI

Hoodie's taking the piss I think  ;) ;D

How does this prove that I fail?

Does this even make sense.

I said, "Many times jersey grabs are not flagged"

You showed me an example of a jersey grab not flagged.

Doesn't this prove I succeeded?   

If it does not significantly affect the receiver, or if it is accompanied by an attempt to make a play on the ball, referees will often not flag jersey grabs.

I thought that controversial call late against the Bengals was justified.  It looked to me like the guy grabbed the guy's body and spun him.

That's not a call that's caught and called all the time, but if you see it, it's PI.

Well, they didn't call PI, they called holding.

HOLDING is a call made BEFORE the pass is thrown.

PASS INTERFERENCE is a call AFTER the pass is thrown.

I have seen far worse jersey grabs made after the pass is thrown not called.

I still want to know how the face mask penalty would have been enforced if it had been called

It would have been a 15 yard penalty from the previous line of scrimmage.

Correct.

This was a call that is often missed.  It's hard to spot and it's judgement, since some jersey tugging seems to be permitted.  In this particular case, it looks to me like the better call would've been PI, but it's close.  I can't say exactly when the ball was in the air since it was a short pass.  But I do think that the defender gave himself unfair advantage to knock the ball down.   Had he not tugged, it's much more likely that the receiver catches that ball.

Sigh. They say a picture says a thousand words, and these should have settled that argument (and the Yoda reference I hoped put a smile on Dave's face).


Look at the picture, and then look at your own words that I highlighted, and look at the situation.

Higgins has made a break in his route to get separation and is doing so from Ramsay, who has grabbed the clothing to stop him getting that space. This is not a little grab by any means (like a little shoulder/waist grab at the line), the clothing is fully stretched out and clearly visible.


Yes it does in this case, as he cannot get separation because of the jersey grab. It basically drew Ramsay back in to contest the pass (and almost wind up with a pick).

Quite simply, this is either clear cut defensive PI if the pass is in the air, or otherwise holding. If you can't see that, you ain't looking.

The cloth may be fully stretched, buts Higgins does not appear to hindered from running in any way.  Also, this grab is accompanied by an attempt to make a play on the ball

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZQI3DOUL6o&list=PLCCPb9tSu8OsjQRDCaMLBESwc_mTyL3xg&index=1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZQI3DOUL6o&list=PLCCPb9tSu8OsjQRDCaMLBESwc_mTyL3xg&index=1)

Here's a similar jersey tug not called

This is a clear grab and pull of the jersey, but was not flagged because the defender attempted to make a play on the ball, and actually HELPED the receiver by pulling him towards the ball

And another (go to the three minute mark)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxZiLGURLwA&list=PLCCPb9tSu8OsjQRDCaMLBESwc_mTyL3xg&index=2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxZiLGURLwA&list=PLCCPb9tSu8OsjQRDCaMLBESwc_mTyL3xg&index=2)

This another uncalled jersey grab and pull.  The defender is making a play on the ball, and no flag is thrown.

And another

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSQmEKcyAeI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSQmEKcyAeI)

This is also clearly grabbing the jersey, but also was not flagged.  This is again, because the defender is trying to make a play on the ball, and had GAINED position on the receiver before the tug.  If the receiver had jumped first, a flag likely would have been thrown

And another

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7i5FVY7gXg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7i5FVY7gXg)

This is a jersey grab not called because it does not significantly affect the receiver.  He still ran his route and had a chance to make a play on the ball.

Like I said, jersey grabs are often not called unless they clearly affect the receiver.  And sometimes not even then.  

Here is an example of jersey grab that was flagged

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Holv5CsRSaQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Holv5CsRSaQ)

This is a clear grab, that CLEARLY impacts the receivers ability to catch the ball, from which he has no chance to recover from.  The defender makes no attempt to make a play on the ball.

My point is that jersey grabs exist and are called on a spectrum.  Often, only the most egregious are flagged.  Many times, grabs in the middle or at the less egregious side of the spectrum are not called.  The key is to be consistent with calling them.  Some people think the referees do not call them consistently

Maybe he's not hindered, but maybe it allows the defensive player to keep pace with a receiver who is otherwise getting away from him -- think of it like the two players are connected with a rubber band.

The bottom line is that it's possible, if not likely, the defensive player is beat and cannot keep pace with the receiver, resulting in a TD, if he doesn't hold that guy's jersey to keep him close.

It doesn't really matter if it was PI or holding in terms of the picture -- that just matters as to when they say the foul occurred vs. when the ball was thrown.  And I may not be correct, but I think the penalty in this case is identical because they're close to the goal line.