The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

https://www.thephinsider.com/2022/2/21/22944892/2022-miami-dolphins-salary-cap-space-and-potential-cap-casualties (https://www.thephinsider.com/2022/2/21/22944892/2022-miami-dolphins-salary-cap-space-and-potential-cap-casualties)

Damn, we can cut a lot of these guys and this alone would pay for Ogbah. I may commit a war crime if we don't release Jesse Davis.

If Gesicki is re-signed I'll be quite surprised.  McDaniel has already signed a fullback, and I suspect he'll want all of his tight ends to have the flexibility to block and catch.  Gesicki is essentially a slow and lumbering slot receiver who can't play inline and can't block.  I think we'll see him in a new uniform next year.

The franchise tag for DE would be $20 Million so we can't use it on Ogbah. Do you think it's possible we use it on Gesicki instead? I hear what you're saying about him but as of now we have two people who can stay on the field and catch and that is Waddle and Gesicki. If we let him walk, we are down to 1 unless Hunter Long somehow proves his worth.

I've heard a few people say this and while I see that point ... McDaniel tells how he adapts to the talent rather than making talent fit his plan. He referenced their work with RG3 as an example. Being that Gesicki is a top talent in the pass game it wouldn't surprise me to see McDaniel work wiht that rather than send him packing.

Some places have him around $11 Million a year for 3-5 years. So, the question is, can that money be better spent elsewhere on the team? The franchise tag for TE is around $11 Million as well, so if we aren't committed long term, we can't let him walk for nothing in 2022. We have to keep him and hope McDaniel gets more out of him.

Gesicki is basically a receiving TE and can't be counted on to block.   He's not worth $11 million per year by any means.   There's a certain TE out there who is a free agent that Hoodie used to cheer for who could be had for a little more than half that.

I can't see why we shouldn't try him out wide as WR2. 

Then we are left with the dilemna of letting our #2 receiver leave for free. I know we have physical humans with heartbeats on the roster who claim to catch the ball, but we really don't outside of Waddle. Counting on Parker to stay healthy is like counting on a crackhead with the rent due. If he is really worth $9 Million, I'd overpay for an extra $2 Million. At the very least, have to franchise tag him. We can't afford to lose what little talent we have on offense.

Gesicki is a playmaker, I don't give a crap whether he can block or not.  He catches first down passes and he catches TD passes, let the lineman to their jobs and block.  It would be a huge mistake to let him go, the Dolphins NEED more playmakers on offense, not less.

This^^^^  It isn't he is a tight end that can catch. He catches balls others can't. Blocking aside he is a special player.

Okay I'll bite. If Gesicki is so slow and lumbering, how the hell does he manage get so open as often as he does? When you add in his sticky hands (even in heavy traffic) I think you'll have 31 other teams ready to snap him up if we whiff on re-signing him.


I agree in full. Tua is a young QB who just had his first full season as a starter, so do you let one of his (two) most reliable targets walk to save a few bucks? The Patriots never flinched when Gronk's contract came up, it was an automatic signing to keep Brady happy. Our penny pinching ways just has to stop if this team is going to get anywhere!

Gesicki was certainly better than the receivers behind him on the depth chart (at TE and WR) on the 2021 Dolphins.

The problem is that the 2021 Dolphins had poor receiving talent.  There were 92 players in the league in 2021 who had better pass-catching efficiency (yards per target) than Gesicki.  In 2020 there were 57 such players, in 2019 118 such players, and in 2018 112 such players.  Obviously it wouldn't be difficult to replace Gesicki with a player who better contributes to offensive pass efficiency.

The strongest predictor of winning in the NFL is offensive pass efficiency.  The Dolphins in 2021 were 20th in the league in that category, nowhere near what would be expected from one of the top teams in the league.

If Gesicki could block and function as a traditional tight end, he would offer additional value.  But he can't block, and so he functions merely as a wide receiver who consistently contributes to poor offensive pass efficiency.

If you want this team to continue to function as it has in recent years in the offensive passing game, you trot Mike Gesicki out there at slot receiver once again.  If you want to improve the team's passing efficiency and win, you get a better athlete at that position.

Wouldn't he count as a WR for tag purposes?  I believe it's determined by the number of snaps off of the line.

That would make him even less tenable as a player for the Dolphins, as the franchise tag for a WR is far greater than the one for a TE.

There's absolutely no chance of Gesicki counting as a TE for franchise tag purposes. The rule is quite clear:

"The Exclusive Franchise Tender shall be a one year NFL Player Contract for (A) the average
of the five largest Salaries in Player Contracts for that League Year as of the end of the Restricted
Free Agent Signing Period that League Year, as set forth in Article 9, Section 2(e), for players at
the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) at which he participated in the
most plays during the prior League Year, or (B) the amount of the Required Tender under
Subsection (a)(i) above, whichever is greater."

(emphasis mine)

Gesicki had 789 snaps for the 2021 season. 438 of those were at slot, 237 out wide.

He's a receiver.

I heard he wanted to fight the TE tag and go as a WR but honestly didn't know the rules. If he qualifies as a WR, then forget the tag. We probably won't use it on anyone then. Probably going to sign some guys on 1 year deals like we did with Fuller then. That was obviously a disaster but I still think it's a good strategy. Bring on Ju Ju, he is looking to rebuild value and seems like a high character guy to boot.

I don't understand why won't dude just learn to block? It can't be that complicated

If he's franchised as a TE it's almost $11 million.  If he's franchised as a WR, it jumps up to $18.5 million.  Depending on how much cap space we have, and it will be the most in the league, we should still franchise tag him imo. 

At $18.5 Million, we can absolutely get a better player on offense or anywhere else on the field. Gesicki would sign that before the ink dried if we offered him the WR Franchise Tag.

Cooper Kupp is under a contract in which he averages $15M+ a year.  Tyreek Hill $18M.  Davante Adams $14.5M.

If this team paid Gesicki $18M it would be a travesty.

It's a one year deal.  Obviously if they could lock up Gesicki on a contract over multiple years it would be a lot less per year.  It's not honest to compare a one year franchise tag to multi year contracts.

Under those conditions Gesicki would absorb 8.7% of the team's projected salary cap in 2022, which in terms of 2022 salary cap percentages would put him in the neighborhood of players like Stefon Diggs (8.51%) and Cooper Kupp (8.96%).  Deandre Hopkins will likely lead the league in that regard in 2022, at 11.9%.  Gesicki wouldn't be far behind him.

You would essentially be paying Gesicki as though he's the "alpha" go-to receiver now almost always seen on the teams with the best passing offenses in the league (Diggs, Hopkins, Adams, Kupp, Chase, Hill, Samuel, Evans, etc.).

Is Gesicki really that player?

For $18 Million, we can probably get JuJu and a solid RB.

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Chris Kouffman
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Let's also keep in mind the offense gained 230 first downs on 786 plays when Gesicki was in the game, versus only 69 first downs on 312 plays when he's not.

That drop-off from 29.3% to 22.1% seems pretty significant and it was pretty consistent across all personnel groupings.

But, was that because Gesicki is great or was that because Gesicki was the only one besides Waddle who was healthy and had a shred of talent so he got the volume?

That involves looking at the Dolphins under a microscope and has insufficient meaning unless we can place it within a league-wide context.  What if for example the teams of the players who are likely to play the position Gesicki does, and get paid what he would, showed a far greater drop-off in performance when those players were off the field?  What that would suggest is that if Gesicki were replaced by someone like them, the team would perform better.

It's real easy to look at the team you root for and "see" talent within it, because you're likely to compare it to the other talent on that team.  What it needs to be compared to is the other talent across the league.  Take a look at how the best teams in the league function, not just how the Dolphins do.

The best teams in the league typically have the best QB/WR combos in the league (Burrow/Chase, Allen/Diggs, Mahomes/Hill, etc.).  I wouldn't shell out a relatively large portion of the salary cap for a WR who's highly unlikely to ever belong in that category.

My guess is that the finding has everything to do with some other variable(s) and little to do with Gesicki.  Gesicki himself had but 39 first downs in 2021, and it's difficult to determine conceptually how his presence could account for an elevation in first down percentage.  What's far easier to surmise however is that first downs may be situationally more difficult to obtain when Gesicki is off the field.  He's likely to be off the field primarily when the team intends to run the ball, since he's largely a slot receiver who can't block.  Rushing efficiency is far less than passing efficiency in general, and so that alone could explain the difference.

https://twitter.com/pff_ryansmith/status/1490764026523131906?s=21

If McDaniel is the offensive guru everyone claims, then he knows this and won't even bother resigning Gesicki. Of course, that means we have a lot of work to do in terms of repairing this receiving corps and I hope we aren't counting on Parker to do anything. I think Hunter Long is already out of the picture too.

This is pretty telling.   I think Gesicki is done in Miami.

https://twitter.com/DavidFurones_/status/1496587837159972866

He doesn't fit the scheme and the NFL is all about that. Thing is, who do we replace him with? Can we salvage Hunter Long? I'm willing to give everyone a shot since my opinion of Flores and his coaches was so low but I prefer not to "roll the dice" on too many guys in 2022.

This is why you sign Gronk to a one or two year deal, and draft a TE.   This draft is chock full of talented TEs.

I want Gronk too but he probably wants to play for a "guaranteed" winner and while we can certainly do good things this year, I don't think many peg us as Superbowl favorites. If Rodgers goes to Denver, maybe he will tag along there. The Bucs are done without Brady, he won't be back with them

Gesicki is a WR not a TE.  If they want him at WR he stays.  If they see him as a TE he goes.

I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if Long took a big jump forward this year. Just another Flores fuck up.

I don't think there's any team in the league that will view him as a tight end.  It'll be interesting to see how much attention he gets from other teams because there isn't a single other player in the league I'm aware of that he compares to.  His blocking is poorer than that of virtually every tight end in the league, and the athleticism he offers to offset that isn't in the league of that of the players for whom you could excuse poor blocking (e.g., Darren Waller).  That essentially makes him, again, a slow, lumbering slot receiver, or at best a red zone specialist to whom you throw jump balls.  If he were 20 pounds lighter and therefore faster, you could fashion him into being an Allen Lazard type of WR, but he's too heavy for that, and so again slow and lumbering.

I wouldn't be surprised if he gets scant attention and nowhere near the payday some have envisioned.

There are plenty of WRs he compares to speed wise.  Gesicki ran a 4.54 forty yard dash.  Other 4.5 forty (or worse) players include Brandon Marshall, Dez Bryant, Chad Johnson, Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald. 

Your analysis of Gesicki seems right. Your analysis on the intelligence of all 32 GMs is not  >:D

Right but keep in mind that those are not slot receivers.  I suppose somebody may take a flyer and try to put him out wide like those guys.

He isn't worth keeping if they want to continue to use him as a slot receiver.  If they're going to pay him, he either needs to learn to block or he needs to go out wide.  I doubt he learns to block.

Most of the best recieving TEs aren't great blockers. Kittle is an anomly in San Fran. Eve Gronk has lost it when it comes to blocking and he was pretty good. Travis Kelce is a great TE but isn't a "Great" run blocker. It really comes down to how you want to use him. If they want Gesicki to be a "great" run blocker then they won't even think about keeping him. If they want a fantastic 3rd down target then he will stay.

The problem with Gesicki is that he's such a poor run blocker that the opposing team can simply insert an extra DB whenever he's on the field, and Gesicki routinely has trouble blocking even that smaller and weaker player (note the video below).  That erases the matchup advantage created by the tight end.

https://twitter.com/pff_ryansmith/status/1490764026523131906?s=21

What are our options at TE then?

I say sign Gronk to a two year deal.  The party boy would love to come to Miami.   Then draft a TE for Gronk to mentor

Gronk won't play for anybody except Tom Brady

This is a great season to grab a TE in the draft. It is flat-out loaded with talent, and would allow Miami to add a much-needed position on a rookie scale contract and use those FA dollars on the line or other positions.

This is someone to consider:

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2022/trey-mcbride

The offensive line will certainly be targeted for improvement, but at #29 overall what's most likely to be obtained is an average-level player.  A tight end at #29 is most likely to be about 70th percentile in the league.

Lots of people thought Austin Jackson would be great simply because he was a first-round pick OL.  But at 18th overall you're looking at about a 60th percentile player most likely, with plenty of busts historically at that draft range.  Like QBs, the top tackles are taken off the board very early (e.g., Penei Sewell).  It's too important a position for the top talents to last long in the draft.  The Dolphins aren't likely getting anybody of quality there at #29 overall this year.

Free agency is the way to go in regards to fixing the line, better coaching is the other. Not going to sign 5 new Linemen and probably not going to draft Day 1 starters with our current draft position either so it will have to be a combo. McBride at 29 makes as much sense as anything else.

Why is Gesicki being evaluated as a Tight End just because it says TE next to his name?

The guy lines up at receiver (wideout or slot) on 85% of his plays. The remaining includes various motions into the backfield as well as actual blocking TE (~10%). He's a receiver and if McDaniel evaluates him as a TE, he's an idiot. The team might prefer to have Gesicki listed as a tight end for whatever reasons, but that doesn't change what he brings to the table.

So, how does Gesicki compare if we look at what he actually is, a receiver that's actually decent (for a receiver) at blocking?

Looking at overall efficieny, as I know Dolfanalyst likes, gets very team-specific. Unless the receiver is consistently running the wrong routes or not "on the same page" as the quarterback, I prefer other metrics when trying to single out the receiver's contribution,

In 2021, Gesicki had 73 receptions on 79 "catchable" passes with 3 drops and 3 (lost) contested. His average distance down-field was 7.7 yards per catch, after which he gained an extra 3 yards after reception - of which 0.9 yards was after contact. His average target depth was 8.7 yards on 112 throws, yielding a catch rate of 65%. His defenders gave him a cushion of 6.5 yards on average and he managed a final separation of 2.8 yards. Finally, he had 1 broken tackle, 9 red zone targets, 2 touchdowns, and drew 1 DPI.

Let's quickly get comparisons with the other Dolphins receivers out of the way.

Parker: Much higher drop rate, more losses to defender, fewer YAC (-0.4y), +3y depth of target, league lowest separation, much lower catch rate (55%).

Waddle: Much higher drop rate, fewer losses to defender, more YAC (+1.2y), -2.2y depth of target, +0.5y separation, much higher catch rate (74%).

No other Dolphins receiver had more than 25 receptions making comparisons statistically suspect.

Albert Wilson was the highest (25) with nearly twice that of the next guy (Hollins at 14), so I'll include Wilson with the caveat that the sample size is low and some metrics were not available. Overall, Wilson had a much higher drop rate, higher loss rate to defender, ridiculously short target depth, but Cooper Kupp level of YAC.

Comparing Gesicki to other receivers around the league, there are some statistically very similar players if we restrict ourselves to 2021. Gesicki managed similar performance last year, which would "thin out" some of the rookies that pop op in the list, but Jacobi Meyers (UDFA, WR, NE) really does stand out with eerily similar stats.

If we just stick to NFL NextGen stats for receivers and use them all, without discriminating, the most similar receivers (least squares from normalized values) are:

Jakobi Meyers   NE   WR   0.24
Cole Beasley   BUF   WR   0.75
T.J. Hockenson   DET   TE   0.97
Robby Anderson   CAR   WR   0.99
Courtland Sutton   DEN   WR   1.11
Christian Kirk   ARI   WR   1.19
Zach Ertz   ARI   TE   1.28
Marvin Jones   JAX   WR   1.33
Allen Robinson   CHI   WR   1.36
Zach Pascal   IND   WR   1.40
Tyler Conklin   MIN   TE   1.45
Nelson Agholor   NE   WR   1.47

There are some stats missing that we'd really want to include, so if we include a dump of all the advanced stats from fantasypros.com, we can do the same thing (still naively including all metrics, regardless):

Jakobi Meyers   1.13
Marvin Jones   3.44
Cole Beasley   3.63
T.J. Hockenson   3.72
Zach Ertz   4.08
Noah Fant   4.27
Tyler Conklin   4.30
Nelson Agholor   4.34
Darren Waller   4.60
Emmanuel Sanders   4.75
Russell Gage   4.79
Nick Westbrook-Ikhine   4.80
Zach Pascal   4.84
DeVonta Smith   4.90

(The distance isn't divided by the number of metrics included, so it will naturally increase the more metrics we include)

If we try to trim the metrics down to the most receiver-specific instead of including everything but the kitchen sink, well, there are a million ways to slice it, but I would go with something like separation, yac/reception, airyards/reception, %caught-of-catchable... and then maybe include overall catch-percentage (not as much of an overlap with %caught-of-catchable as you'd think - and this stat hopefully catches something of how the receiver is at running the *right* routes). Then we get the following:

Jakobi Meyers   0.0116
Keenan Allen   0.0118
Rashod Bateman   0.0119
Sterling Shepard   0.0145
Stefon Diggs   0.0205
Joshua Palmer   0.0229
Michael Pittman   0.0245
Adam Thielen   0.0260
Russell Gage   0.0330
Tre'Quan Smith   0.0334
Brandin Cooks   0.0367
Zay Jones   0.0371
Nick Westbrook-Ikhine   0.0411
Hunter Henry   0.0455
T.J. Hockenson   0.0499

Quickly looking up the contracts for those... About half are on their rookie contracts, Westbrook-Ikhine on a 1-year league minimum, Zay Jones on 1-year $2.5 million, the rest between 10 and 20 million a year for 4 years, roughly half guaranteed.

If Gesicki is looking for something like $40 million for 4 years, half guaranteed, I'd be tempted to give it to him. That seems about where his value is. As a receiver.

(edited to round the numbers)

Great work.  I would pay him that as well, because it would lessen his cap hit from ~8.5% of the team's total cap (what was talked about earlier in the thread) to 4.8%, which would drop him well out of the company of alpha go-to receivers in terms of salary.  If he were willing to take that salary I would gladly depart with Parker and his salary and slide Gesicki right into Parker's spot.

My main goal is simply not to pay Gesicki as though he's the kind of alpha go-to guy virtually always seen on the teams with the best passing offenses in the league.  That kind of money needs to be reserved for a player who can actually fulfill that role, as that role is virtually essential for Super Bowl-level competitiveness in today's game.

^^^

Even though I have said repeatedly we have to go about our business like Parker isn't even on the roster, he only counts for $8.7 Million against the cap this year. Releasing him would only save $3.3 Million while creating $5.4 Million in dead money. There just is no benefit to it other than opening up a roster spot.

The guy does have talent, he just needs someone yelling at him all the time to be a man and stop missing 80% of the season due to soft tissue aches and pains. We definitely are not the toughest team in the league at WR.

At this point I have to simply believe that Parker is one of those players for whom football isn't a passion in life.

Lots of us out there have jobs we aren't passionate about, that serve only to pay the bills.  Ricky Williams clued us in years ago on the fact that there's likely a sizable percentage of NFL football players of that ilk as well, and I have to think Parker is one of them.  And I don't think you win with players like that.

I feel the same way about Will Fuller. WR is not a brutal position all things considered and it pays very well. Just ride it out for a bit more and retire at 33.

I don't know about you guys, but I don't want injured receivers out there on the field dropping balls or stumbling through routes just to prove how tough they are.

If they say they're injured, next man up.  If 100% of Albert Wilson or Preston Williams isn't better than 60% of Devante Parker or Will Fuller, then MIA has other, more glaring problems.

That's great and all in a perfect world but pretty much everyone is hurt in some way in the NFL. It's people like Parker though who seem to not be able to play unless they feel completely healthy. That puts him in the minority.

This article has Gesicki signing with the Dolphins for 4 years and $55M, with $30M guaranteed:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2022-nfl-free-agency-landing-spots-pff-top-50-free-agents

That I can live with if Parker and his salary are gone and the money allocated to the receiving corps has the necessary amount set aside for the alpha go-to guy the team needs.  Gesicki in Parker's spot, Waddle in the slot, a traditional TE who can block and catch, and a true alpha go-to guy of the Ja'Marr Chase mold would be what the passing game needs in my opinion.

The above article also has the Dolphins signing Allen Robinson for $16M a year and replacing the left side of the offensive line with Terron Armstead and Laken Tomlinson.

Financially speaking, I don't think we can replace Jackson and Liam in free agency and still have money for other things. They are on rookie deals and giving up on either of them, especially Liam after one season may not be the way to go. RT must absolutely be upgraded and I won't be heartbroken if Jackson is gone, but Liam needs another shot and I still want to know what happened to Solomon Kindley.

Parker will be a Dolphin in 2022 unless we can find some team to give us a 2026 7th rounder for him. Dead money is too high and the cap savings is not much. We got money to spend, but paying top dollar for Gesicki while adding wide receivers and a $20 Million LT doesn't seem feasible while drafting 29th.

I think if they sign a left tackle we'll see Eichenberg moved to right tackle and Jesse Davis gone.  Also, if Parker is cut after June 1st the team saves $6M of cap money.

What I don't get with this whole thing: Tua is left handed, so RT should be where it all starts with the OL as it's his blind side.

Hunt was excellent at RT in 2020... we then move him to guard last season. He was still our best OL by a country mile in 2021... so why isn't he automatically penciled in for the most important position on the line?

I'll give Eichenberg a wee bit of leeway because it was only his rookie year, but for the life of me I can't see why he should be at RT instead of Hunt. If we are talking about the left side of the line and moving Jackson to guard, I can at least understand the reasoning...

As for Jesse Davis, the guy should never have been a starter to begin with. It beggars belief we had him at RT so long last season.

The issue is that almost all teams have a right-handed QB, and so teams almost always place their best pass-rushers at RDE to attack the QB's blind side, thus necessitating high-quality left tackles to block those players.  Certainly the right tackle is more important to Tua than it is to right-handed QBs, but chances are that right tackle will be blocking someone of less ability than the left tackle will.

That's an excellent point. Hunt should definitely be moved over to RT either way though unless we go big in free agency. The whole scheme last year was a disaster from Week 1, coaches obviously had no idea what they were doing.

Apparently coach isn't nearly concerned with Gesicki's blocking as some of you. His comments from the combine on Gesicki.

“There are multiple ways to use players,” McDaniel said, transcribed by Joe Schad of the Palm Beast Post. “We’ve had tight ends in our history that have been featured pass catchers. We have no problem, hesitation or concern in Mike being able to block.”

....

“I think there’s multiple ways to use players that have skill sets that can help you do things offensively,” McDaniel said. “We’ve had tight ends in our history that have been featured pass receivers and we’ve had featured blockers. On both ends of the system, they are expected and will do both things, majoring or minoring in one or the other, depending on their skill sets.

“I have no problem, no hesitation or no concern of Mike being able to contribute as a blocker and will use him the way it’s most appropriate for him, as well we’ll do in the pass game, really.”


As Joe Rose said. Many teams bring in an extra lineman in obvious running downs anyway.

I think this is just coach speak for right now. Gesicki is a free agent, don't want to say the wrong thing, especially when you haven't even coached a game yet. Not saying he is wrong or can't get the most from him, but I look at these words like I look at a politician's speech.

You're best post of the year! 

This article is all guesses, but I like some of it.  I don't care for signing Robinson, he had career lows last year; I'd rather see Miami draft a WR.  If possible I'd like to see Miami sign Tampa's center, Ryan Jensen.

Apparently Amari Cooper is likely to be released.  That's a guy I would check into and determine what it would take salary-wise to sign him.  He is from Miami and went to Miami Northwestern.

Let Parker go, sign Gesicki and stick him in Parker's spot, keep Waddle in the slot, and stick Cooper on the other side.  Draft Trey McBride at TE in the 1st round and use FA to shore up the offensive line.  Now you're in business.

Amari will have his share of suitors and if he is trying to rebuild value since I don't think anyone is paying him $20 Million a year, he might sign a one year deal, but it will probably be for a reliable QB. Not a QB we all hope becomes a star.

With a Bama QB throwing to him and a fellow Bama receiver lined up alongside him, I'm sure he'd give Miami a look.

Gesicki played a lot more in the slot than out wide, so my primary concern would be his effectiveness outside. I don't have numbers that break down his performance based on position, so it's not something I can look up. Teams have access to this data, of course, so that's certainly easy for the new coaching staff to see. It might also depend on offense McDaniel intends to implement, again something I'm (sadly) not privy to.

Gesicki got franchise tagged.

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1501198128782921738?s=21 (https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1501198128782921738?s=21)

All that speculation about him not being a good enough blocker by arm chair QBs is laid to rest. Like I said … coach said he adjusts to great players strengths and doesn’t think all people need to fit into a certain scheme. So far he’s practicing what he is preaching.

The refrain here hasn't been shown to be incorrect.  He's neither been paid like an alpha go-to WR (which would be about double his current $10M) nor been plugged into an inline tight end role.  The team's apparent estimation of his value is no different from the estimations here.

Hopefully they can work out a long term deal without having to pay him the one year tag amount.

Sources are saying he's going to file a grievance because he thinks he should be tagged as a WR and not a TE

I strongly doubt they'd pay him the going franchise tag rate for a WR, which is $18M+.

It has aboslutely been incorrect. Many people said he would be gone as the new coach would want a TE who could block and Mike doesn't fit the bill. As it is he is being retained as a high paid TE. The fact you want to try and change his postion to win an argument in semantics doesn't make it a reality. 

Very unlikely as well, so hopefully this just buys them time for a new deal. He knows if Miami rescinds the tag, he won't be getting paid $18 Million a year as a WR. His next contract will be a TE contract in terms of money. Hope his agent isn't bullshitting him into thinking he will be getting top WR money in a FA and Draft class loaded with them.

First, what does "winning" an argument with nobodies on a message board do for anybody?  Is that useful for you personally?

Second, you don't know the capacity in which he's being retained.  He hasn't yet been played at tight end in McDaniel's system, and if he plays predominantly WR as he has previously, he isn't a high-paid one.

He's using the leverage he can to get the team to ink him to a long-term deal instead of the franchise tag.  It'll be interesting to see whether the team does that or balks at it, if he wins the grievance.  It's still entirely possible he's in a new uniform next year and the team has planned for that eventuality, knowing he would likely file the grievance.  They lose nothing by franchise tagging him and either 1) keeping him at a one-year salary they believe is more befitting his ability, or 2) losing the grievance and rescinding the tag and allowing him to walk in FA.

In other words, franchise tagging Gesicki is hardly a strong testament to the team's investment in him.

^^^

I believe so too. They want him but on their terms. They know he will win the grievance so this is buying them time. I don't know when these get settled either, if it's months from now then it's a huge blow to Gesicki as most teams are settled with money and rosters by then.

What makes you think he will win the grievance? 

The tag is based on what position you played the most in the year. Mike technically lined up as WR more than TE so he has more snaps at that position. Miami really doesn't have much of a case other than prior year's usage. That's why for both parties sake, a deal will very likely be worked out. Miami wants him back and Mike doesn't want to be in limbo waiting for a legal remedy to this while free agency ends and rosters are set. He wants to cash out too, not play under a one year deal.

I quoted the actual wording in the CBA earlier in the thread. The Dolphins have zero chance of winning the grievance.

"The Exclusive Franchise Tender shall be a one year NFL Player Contract for (A) the average
of the five largest Salaries in Player Contracts for that League Year as of the end of the Restricted
Free Agent Signing Period that League Year, as set forth in Article 9, Section 2(e), for players at
the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) at which he participated in the
most plays during the prior League Year, or (B) the amount of the Required Tender under
Subsection (a)(i) above, whichever is greater."

(emphasis mine)

Gesicki had 789 snaps for the 2021 season. 438 of those were at slot, 237 out wide.

He's a receiver.

Yeah, not really a lot of room for interpretation with this one. He was a receiver and Miami knows that......I hope. Things should work out for both sides.

of the 438 in the slot, is he still on the line of scrimmage where he would be lined up normally as a TE?  There might be a loop hole there where he's still technically lined up as a TE, he's just off the line a bit.  Just a thought.

LOL ... might want to look in the mirror there bub and take your own advice. You seem to get your panties in a wad with many people in here.

As for your point it seems like you are saying they value him as a WR and not a TE? At this point I couldn't tell you one way or the other but I do know they value him as a great player.

I'll pass on continuing to talk with you.  Take care.

I suspect they're taking a flyer on this and are fully prepared to rescind the tag and let him walk when he wins the grievance.

Other than people speculating has anything come out from a seemingly official report that Gesicki was filing a grievance? I can't seem to find anything substantial.

No, but he has time. He probably wants o work out a long term deal before going that route as it could lead to bad blood and both sides really lose. Miami doesn't want to pay him $18 Million as a WR and can rescind the tag and Gesicki might miss out on the free agency fury, especially with Godwin and Adams getting franchised.

I could be wrong on a few dates but a long term deal at a TE salary is best for both parties.

And that's where the rubber will meet the road, because I'm not sure McDaniel and company see a viable role for Gesicki beyond a potential one-year "rental."  I suspect they want their tight ends to be blockers and pass-catchers, and their wide receivers to be YAC guys.  Gesicki fits neither of those roles.

In fact here's a very thorough article on how the recent 49ers' offenses have used YAC receivers:

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-the-numbers/2021/5/20/22444495/how-to-build-an-aaron-rodgers-out-of-yac-and-mediocre-quarterbacks

And that's where Miami will win the grievance

But then why even use the tag on him? I know they can rescind it if he doesn't sign it quickly, but it seems like a waste of time. I think they want him at Tight End money and that's it. This gives them leverage by basically hurting his Free Agency market by tying him up.

That's the 49ers offense.  When he was a coach at Washington they used Reed I think it was who's similar to Gesicki and got a lot of production out of him.  He had a lot of success with the 49ers, but I don't think he's going to turn our offense into a carbon copy of the 49ers offense.

That's exactly what McDaniel said. Just like in the case of RG3 ... they geared the offense to his strengths and didn't force him to be something he is not.

Which is how it should be done. You don't turn Tom Brady into a scrambler and complain when it doesn't work out right.

Exactly. Shula adapted to a certain degree and some coaches do but if McDaniel really is about getting the best out of good players than he is about forcing his scheme than he will be a first for this league. It will be interesting to see how this idea unfolds ... at least to me.

This is definitely a guy to target at right guard:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33468913/titans-release-pro-bowl-g-rodger-saffold-per-source

Hunt is our best guard. He did well at RT in his limited time in 2020, you think if we signed this guy or a top RG we can switch Hunt to RT to address that situation? I would take a turnstile over Jesse Davis at this point.

Sorry, meant to say left guard for Saffold, which is where he plays.

I wonder what happened to Soloman Kindley. They talked about him being a mauler his first year and then refused to play him last year no matter how poorly the unit played. I have to belive there was something between him and a coach or coaches. Hopefully he (and others) succeeds with the new guys.

BTW ... the Dolphns just placed a second round tender on Nik Needham.

Kindley did relatively well in his rookie year, certain well enough to play on last year's unit as it was atrocious. I have no idea what happened but I agree that it had to be more than just his performance.

Once again, everyone forgot how to play on the O-Line in one offseason? Not buying it.

How about this for an offensive line:

LT Terron Armstead
LG Rodger Saffold
C Ryan Jensen
RG Robert Hunt
RT Liam Eichenberg

I'm pretty wary of paying top dollar for free agent offensive lineman - for some reason it rarely seems to work out for Miami, we seem to get them at the wrong end of their career when they are near retirement or looking for party money. Branden Albert we got way too late (to the extent he was shown up by Tunsil as a rookie), and Incongnito was a disaster.

After just two seasons are we going to throw the towel in on Kindley and Jackson? Jackson has been a disappointment, but he was drafted as a raw prospect. Kindley was very solid at guard in his rookie season starting next to Hunt on the right side of the line - no idea WTF happened last year to prevent him from playing. If we get those guys playing well along with Eichenberg, that's most of the positions filled, plus they are young and cheap! It would leave is just the Center position to (finally) address.

The problem with players like Jackson and Kindley is that they were drafted at spots where there is a history of a significant percentage of busts historically.  Relatively late first-round left tackles and fourth-round guards are nowhere near guaranteed to be adequate players.  There shouldn't be high expectations for either one of them.

I'm fine with that, but the mystery of Solomon Kindley needs to be solved. He played adequately as a 4th round rookie in 2020 and then was banished in 2021, not seeing the field despite Miami having the league's worst O-Line. The notion that he forgot how to play football over the summer to the point he couldn't replace anyone is not believeable. If he never plays for us again then so be it, but I would like to know why.

Legal tampering begins today.

Ryan Jensen at Center is off the board as the Bucs resigned him. Our FA targets have disappeared before the period even started, so we have to be aggressive with what is left and maybe figure out some trades.

L'Ael Collins sounds like a good trade we can make if it's only for a 4th rounder or so as the Cowboys need to offload salary by Wednesday. They need to do this because you NEVER spend big on running back.

I would prefer to sign Ju Ju Schuster at WR, seems like our best bet now that the top WR targets are off the board. Trading for DK Metcalf would make sense but he only has 1 year left and that is only worth a 1st rounder if we have Superbowl aspirations this season. As much as we want to, I don't think that's going to happen.

Point is, we may have to get creative now unless we want to blow $93 Million on an LT who is fast becoming injury prone.

Christiak Kirk goes tothe Jags, like 89689076 other players.

No rumors have us in on Allen Robinson so it's either JuJu or drafting a WR. Maybe both. Hopefully both because we can't rely on Parker for anything, he must be treated like the 4th WR.

EDIT: Christian Kirk just got Top 10 WR money and I see people congratulating Miami on not doing the deal.

Just saw Gesicki signed his franchise tender so apparently he didn’t take you guys’ advice in suing. He was actually the first person to sign after getting tagged.

I know, that's awesome. Surprising too but I guess his agent told him that he would lose based off of some technicality so just sign it, hope the new coach makes you even better and cash out next year.

Why haven't we traded for Collins yet? The dude is going to get $16 Million a year minimum on the open market and it will be a bidding war, no guarantees he comes to Miami. Trade for him now, go as high as a 2nd rounder if need be. We aren't getting anyone better than him with our 2nd rounder.

Jesse Davis was the worst RT in football and Collins is Top 5. What are we waiting for? Biggest no brainer of the offseason.

Browns release Center JC Tretter in a salary cap move. Top 3 pass blocking grade in 4 straight seasons.

GO! GO! GO!

Apparently, Terron Armstead is waiting to see what happens with DeShaun Watson. If the Saints get him, he might re-sign. That is what is holding up his market. I have no idea how the Saints can afford to even trade for Watson, let alone trade for him and then re-sign Terron. Team is in terrible cap shape and will now have no draft picks until 2025 if they get Watson. So, really undesirable location for Terron if he wants to win.

I'm sorry, but we can't wait for him. Way too risky. Trade for Collins and try to sign the Browns center and we only need to worry about Liam at LT but it's easier to improve if all the coaching is focused on you since you are the only one who sucks at that point.

So what you have here are two ultra-efficient players at RB and WR (Edmonds and Wilson), a zone-blocking guard (Williams), and the re-signing of Gesicki and Ogbah, along with a needed backup QB (Bridgewater).

Edmonds was 8th in the league among RBs in DVOA in 2021, and Wilson 13th in the league among WRs.  Edmonds is a zone back who can catch as well:

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists/mike-mcdaniel-chase-edmonds-miami-dolphins/

Not sure what they have in mind for Gesicki, but hopefully it'll involve capably replacing Parker and his salary.

Releasing Parker is too much dead cap but maybe we can trade him if we don't eat too much dead money on it, don't know how it works for him. I don't see us splurging for Robinson so it looks like we will get another WR in the draft. Free agency probably now belongs to the O-Line and we need to get it right. Best opportunity to improve is right now.

Honestly, with the contracts receivers are getting in free agency now, Parker's $9 million a year for the final two years of his contact seem a lot more palatable. Maybe a new coach can get something more out of him, but even if it's just the usual, he isn't *massively* overpaid in the sense that it's not trivial to get a receiver with his total contribution for less money than he's making.

Once again this year Miami is making a lot of moves in free agency, I just hope these additions work out and improve the team.

My issue with Parker is less about his salary to production ratio and more about his salary to effort ratio.  I don't think it's good for a team's culture when players who are giving maximum effort are paid significantly less than players like Parker who appear to "coast."  It's understandable of course when players are on rookie contracts and expected to make less than their veteran counterparts, but I want as few players as possible who are among the highest-paid players on the team to also be the ones who are poor examples of maximum effort.

Yeah, I agree. Parker had one healthy season where his injuries miraculously disappeared and that was his contract year. This is why you always be leary of guys who have their best seasons in their walk years, shows a less than 100% effort all the other times. Maybe McDaniel can get more out of him but I'm pessimistic. I think we see another 10 game season with 500 yards. We would be wise to draft a WR in the 2nd round and treat DeVante like the 5th receiving option.

In the following year he missed three games in a row of a playoff run and then showed up in the final game of the season and caught 7 passes for 116 yards to earn a $750K contract incentive.

If the WR free agency market has all of a sudden become that thin and expensive, I also think it could make sense to hang on to Parker for one more year.

With Waddle established as the genuine #1 receiver and a more cleverly minded coaching staff for the offense, if he stays fit he could be in for a good one. More so if they say it's time for him to put up, or else be cut or traded.

Myles Jack was released by Jax last night. I'd love to see Miami work out something with him.

What are we doing about RT and LT? It looks like we don't want Collins at RT for some insane reason, so are we moving Hunt over to RT? Drafting another LT for the 3rd time in 3 years? Undeniably our top 2 needs and we aren't moving on them.

Trading a 3rd or 4th for Collins and getting him for that great contract is so much better than getting into a bidding war for him, so I can only assume we don't want him.

LOL .. Have you met with coach? It sure seems like you are doing an awful lot of assuming. I don't think the O-line will play out until the season starts and then it may be tweaked.

Coach or GM? Because I've seen what the GM can and can't do and there are a lot of misses with those hits. With a good amount of cap space, it isn't logical to just sit on it and go into the season with only an upgrade at LG. Especially with Top 5 Centers and Right Tackles available right now. I would love to be proven wrong but my pessimism has sadly been proven right in the past.

The whole market is waiting on Armstead since he's the best tackle available.  He's waiting on if Deshaun Watson is traded to the Saints.  If so, Armstead is not going to resign with the Saints because they can't afford him and Watson.  If not, the Saints resign Armstead because he wants to stay. After he signs, the other tackles will have a comparable number.

There are no other tackles we need. We need to get the Center the Browns just released and trade for Collins. If we wait for Collins to hit the market, he is costing 50% more. There is no better RT on the market than him and he is cheap, it truly is a no brainer. Waiting to get into a bidding war with Armstead is stupid and will prevent us from upgrading at 2 spots as opposed to signing him and getting 1 upgrade.

Listen, we say this every year but there are times when we are way smarter than the front office. Trading for Collins now is the smart move unless his medicals show he won't ever walk again. Going all in on Armsteadis not the best play and striking out on him while the Center and Collins go elsewhere is what a bad GM would do.

I disagree completely.  I'd rather have Armstead and draft a center.

On the field, he is a beast, no denying that. Our line is much better with him. However, way too risky for numerous reasons. One, it involves a bidding war with many teams. Two, he does come with inujry risk and it is substantial. Three, by waiting on him, you let Collins and the Center go elsewhere, meaning if we don't get Armstead, we got nothing. Most cap space in the NFL and all we land is a Guard who led the NFL in holding penalties? That is the type of failure that would get a GM fired in a normal franchise.

The fact that we are not getting Collins in a trade is a huge failure, let alone everything else.

Collins has his own injury history and is risky too, we could be giving draft picks for no reason.  That guard from the cowboys is pretty good other than the holding, which he was benched for then when he came back was much better.  I just don't agree with this pessimistic outlook you have, you're really set on Collins and the Browns center for some reason.  Even if we don't get either, there are other tackles out there that are better than what we have.

Raheem Mostert now signed.

Bills just got Von Miller, Tua is going to get hospitalized again unless we have major upgrades. The Center and Collins are the top upgrades available at that position and we have the money, so it's a no brainer. Why would we settle for other options when we can afford the best? Like buying a Honda Civic when you can afford a Ferrari.

Von Miller is only kind of good now, he's not nearly as dominant as he once was.

Dallas has released L'Ael Collins.

Makes no sense for Dallas because they didn't need to and now they have around $8 Million in dead money for 2023. Their asking price in a trade couldn't be too high because if they didn't find takers, they would just lower it to get something for him.

He missed all of 2020 with a surgical repair and 5 games last year. The risk is there but he was signed for 3 years at $10 Million each. There is no way he isn't getting $15 Million a year right now. We absolutely should've traded for him, there is no RT better than him that is available to us and we had the money. We'll see where this goes, we may still get him but there will be a biding war as there is no doubt the Bengals are Superbowl champs with a better O-Line and they want him too.

Allen Robinson just went to the Rams, 3 years/$45 Million. Could be an amazing signing for them. He is off the board for us, if he was ever on the board. This means OBJ won't be returning but he's basically done for 2022 anyway.

Hal Habib wrote this about our offensive line and I thought of you.

In 2022, the Dolphins face all five of the top five sack leaders from last season. And that doesn't even include Von Miller and the Bills twice. Yet little movement on the offensive line? Really?

I'm probably the biggest proponent here for giving the young guys a shot because their coaching was terrible. However, if you can get one of the best centers in the league to replace a guy who isn't even under contract in 2023, what decision is there to be made?

Replacing the worst RT in the league with Lael Collins? Yes, go do that. We got the cap space and top guys are available, I just don't see the problem. We can't go into next year with Jesse Davis.

This is what gets GM's fired.

You guys realize there are more tackles than Collins and Armstead right?  I wouldn't be surprised to see Miami get some of the 2nd tier players.

Why get second tier when we can afford first tier? Two years in a row we just barely missed the playoffs and the AFC is getting ridiculously hard. The way the AFC West is, they may have 4 playoff teams, meanng we need to take the division to get in. We can't afford to draft another tackle in the 2nd round and hope it works out, or get a 2nd tier free agent.

Because they might not want to play here?  Collins looks like he wants to play with the Bengals, I can't blame him because they were just in the Superbowl. As far as trading for him, there's probably a reason not one team did that. Armstead wants to stay with the saints if he can.  

That is possible and that's fine, but I'm not hearing even any rumors about us interested or making offers or scheduling visits. Collins is visiting with the Bengals right now. We don't seem very urgent to do anything but get depth pieces for the second offseason in a row and there is no way we are making the playoffs unless this line is improved. I like our new coaching hires for the line but it seems like the easiest way to improve it is by getting the best players and not hoping for rebounds.

I wouldn't look to much into that.  Once the OT market shakes out, and if we still don't come away with anything, maybe then we can dog Grier.

No maybes about it, this type of stuff gets you fired at normal organizations. #1 goal in the offseason is to improve the O-Line. We have the most cap space. If he doesn't do that, it's a complete failure. He won't be fired of course but he should be for it IF he doesn't do that. It's not over yet but they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

I completely agree with Edge ... when your O-line has sucked as long as ours has you'd expect them to go out and overpay and or trade to make to right.

McDaniel was quoted recently as saying he believes coaching can have a significant impact on the individual play of offensive linemen.  So I suppose it's entirely possible he could've watched film of the current players and believes he can get them where they need to be without spending a ton on new players.

I'm of that belief too, but even I don't think Michel Dieter is going to turn into one of the best centers in the NFL for 2022. So, why not sign one of the best centers in the NFL for 2022? Dieter is a free agent anyway after this season, it just makes too much sense to sign Tretter. Guys like him don't usually become free agents but the Browns screwed up by releasing him in the hopes of getting space for Watson.

I can understand arguments against Collins due to injury concerns but not Tretter. Hasn't missed a game in years.

There are a few quality centers in the draft this year, including Linderbaum who scouts are saying is the best center they've ever scouted. 

JuJu Schuster signs with Kansas City for 1 year/$10.75 Million. Definitely would've taken him for that price, looks like we are relying on Parker again and some 3rd round WR.

Juju is a clown, no thanks.

In terms of efficiency, Wilson was far and away better than Smith-Schuster last year.  Like in a different galaxy better.

We are apparently ramping up our pursuit of Armstead and putting Collins on hold for now. Collins left Cincy without a deal, which means he probably wants a bidding war. This is why trading a 3rd or 4th for him was the way to go considering his below market contract.

As much as I don't want to commit $24 Million to an LT, we are so far behind the other AFC teams at this point that we need to do something drastic.

Dallas wanted a 2nd or 3rd, initial reports of it being a mid to late pick were false.  Barry Jackson is also suggesting we may go after both Armstead and Collins.

Barry made it seem like Dallas wanted a 3rd and he knocked the front office a bit in the same tweet. For a 3rd rounder? No brainer, you make that trade. Are we going to draft a Top 5 RT with our 3rd rounder? Very unlikely. Plus, you save between $3-5 Million a year by doing so because now his free market deal will be worth much more than what he was signed for.

I will gladly take Armstead if he can stay on the field, but going all in for him and very likely calling it a day afterwards is probably not as good of an idea as Collins and Tretter and it's more than both of them combined.

The Bengals signed L'Ael Collins to a 3 year deal, no money disclosed yet.

Massive failure on the part of Chris Grier to try to protect Tua's blind side. As of this moment, the worst RT in the NFL is still Miami's starter. Absolutely unacceptable, no one on our roster can be coached to become a Top 5 RT and we certainly aren't drafting one either.

Worse yet, the Superbowl contender Bengals got him to improve their O-Line, which was their #1 offseason priority, just like it was supposed to be ours. Despite adding a good WR and LG, we are further away from the playoffs. Only a combo of Tretter and Armstead at this point can salvage this offseason.

You keep on with your sky is falling nonsense because we didn't get the exact player you wanted, the same guy that has a serious injury history and has been rumored to be one infraction away from a year long suspension, and I'll wait and see how it all shakes out before I pass judgment.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1505664606462787588?t=g4v3s8UaNEWoc0_80RpeXQ&s=19 (https://mobile.twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1505664606462787588?t=g4v3s8UaNEWoc0_80RpeXQ&s=19)

Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
#Saints free agent OT Terron Armstead is flying tonight to South Florida and is set to visit the #Dolphins tomorrow, per me and
@TomPelissero
. One of the top players available in free agency, Armstead would fill a huge need for Miami. ✈️
5:56 PM · Mar 20, 2022·Twitter for iPhone

Let's get him boys

What has this team ever done that makes you give them the benefit of the doubt? Armstead has a worse injury history and is 31 and if we want him, we basically have to reset the market for Left Tackles. Why would that be Plan A? We have no Right Tackle unless we want to stick with the worst RT in the NFL. If we don't, then what? Move Eichenberg over to a position he doesn't play? Try Austin Jackson out at his 3rd position in 3 years and hope this one pans out?

The O-Line is a serious problem and if we don't get Armstead, we're in big trouble when we didn't need to be.

Constantly crying about it doesn't help anything.  Like I said, wait for it all to shake out and see. 

We all agree the coaching staff of the offense was deplorable, and I think their replacements should be given a little time and leeway to work out what we have with all the draft capital we used, and what we really need to improve the line.

Already they got Williams and have him penciled in at guard (probably left). This could potentially free up Hunt to move back to RT where he did pretty well in his rookie season, and they can assess Eichenberg, Jackson and Kindley for the remaining guard and tackle positions (and hopefully cut that human turnstile Davis).

If we find an free agent upgrade at tackle that's all good, but I'd be cautious about breaking the bank to get Armstead - his age and injury history to me are red flags. IMO finding a quality center is just as if not more important - it's a position we have neglected since Pouncey left.

It's the offseason, there is nothing to talk about but free agency and after that, the draft. We "waited for it to shake out" with Collins and the worst case scenario happened, to no one's surprise. It's fine to be pessimistic when your GM is an egotistical idiot who doesn't want to admit failure with his draft picks so he sabotages free agency.

I didn't want to break the bank with Armstead either, I wanted a Top 5 RT in Collins and a Top 5 Center in Tretter. That means every single O-Line position is great or good except for LT in Eichenberg, but the kid is talented and with new coaching, can be serviceable. Like I said, Deiter is a free agent after this season and is just serviceable. Why wouldn't we want to upgrade from that if possible? You don't often get a chance to upgrade the worst part of your team so thoroughly in free agency. We could've upgraded 3 spots in one free agency period and turned the worst unit into a Top 10 one. I just don't see why we didn't take that opportunity other than stubbornness.

The top edge rushers are almost always coming off the left side of the line.  That's where you need your biggest OL talent.

I don't agree with this. The very best pass rushers come from anywhere - they look for the weakest part of the line and attack from there.

This is nothing new - Ted Hendricks did it in the 60s and 70s and was generally considered the prototype of the roaming pass rusher. Lawrence Taylor took it to another level in the 80s - it's been widely copied since then, and still continues today with the very best players.

You can't move your OL line around before the snap to cover, but the least you can do is protect your QB's blind side. For us, that spot is primarily RT and not the left.

YES! My opinion also; Miami needs a solid center to anchor the line and lead this unit.

Sign Armstead and Tretter. Make the left side of the line a legitimately Top 5 unit. Hunt either stays at RG or moves to RT. Liam takes the other position, although I feel like we will move Liam to RT if we sign Armstead since he is already a tackle and Hunt could become very good if he stays at RG.

Whatever we do, at the end of this season we can't be put into a position where we say "Tua showed some great stuff but we will never know his true potential until this O-Line gets better". That is where we are RIGHT NOW. This whole offseason was supposed to be about removing all doubt on whether he is the franchise QB or not. If we improved the line and the run game and the passing game and he is ranked around 20th, then he ain't the guy.

Armstead signed.

As it stands right now, we shouldn't be the worst O-Line in the NFL. Might even crack the Top 20 with Armstead and Collins.

Consider as well that that moves Eichenberg to the right side and eliminates Jesse Davis. So if you considered Austin Jackson and Jesse Davis the weakest linemen, which I think is accurate, then they’ve both been replaced and there is a massive upgrade at left tackle.

I am assuming this means Liam to RT, seems like the most likely option as they don't want to give up on him after one year and money wise, there isn't a RT available now worth big money. I still want Tretter, I think it would be a big opportunity missed to not get him. As it stands, we should be good enough to evaluate Tua properly.....assuming Liam isn't the worst RT in football next year.

For what it's worth, Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald says Miami isn't done yet and "center will be addressed". I don't think he was referring to the draft.

I'm starting to wonder what position(s) Miami will be focusing on for the draft.  They've already gone after RB's, OL, and WR's (although not top tier guys) in free agency.  It almost makes me wonder if Miami will save up some draft capital for next year should Tua not be lights out this year.

We still have plenty of needs. Our first pick will probably be best available player - if one of the top linebackers are at our first pick 29 (Lloyd or Dean) we should not blink and scoop them up. If we want a quality WR, we will probably have to trade up. Other than that, if we haven't addressed the center position that could also be a real possibility.

McDaniel will probably want depth at the RB position for rotations, and with Duke gone our second pick at 50 should find one of the top candidates to slot in.

After that, who knows? This draft is supposed to be deep in TE, we could drop a pick on one (although it makes the Hunter Long pick last year look even more of a waste). Maybe a roughy at WR, or more depth at LB? You can never have too much depth in the secondary, so maybe something there?

If they get Tretter, I would be shocked if they went O-Line before the 6th round unless the top guy in the draft was somehow still available in the 2nd or 3rd round for us. I think they go WR with their first pick since we want a solid 4th option for Tua and not have to rely on Parker. We could also go best player off the board since we could use some more linebackers. Can never have too many quality defensive guys.

You may have a good idea though about draft capital for next year. If dropping down in the 3rd round nets us a 3rd rounder in 2023, maybe we do that as long as we are happy with our first 2 picks and free agency. We already got 2 First Rounders in 2023, couldn't hurt to add more picks if indeed Tua is not the guy. Hopefully, the Niners don't pick almost last in 2023.

Talks of Tyreek Hill being traded to the jets or dolphins.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1506653187171835911?t=u3bZTpAIwr4fhVjLQBLS6A&s=19 (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1506653187171835911?t=u3bZTpAIwr4fhVjLQBLS6A&s=19)

Multiple teams were approached about a potential Tyreek Hill trade, but the Jets and Dolphins emerged in recent days as the two finalists, per sources. Hill is now likely to wind up as a Jet or Dolphin.

That would certainly be something. I don't know what the trade package would be because he is in a contract year, but moves like these are what you have to do if you want to contend. I wouldn't dangle a first rounder for him since it's a contract year, but maybe a 2nd because we can also franchise tag him in 2023? I don't know, but it's a major move and any defense playing against Hill/Waddle/Wilson/Gesicki is going to shit themselves.

Jets want to develop Wilson but they are really far away from contending and might not risk good draft picks on a guy who probably won't stick around.

Often these trades are contingent on reaching a long term deal with the player. I'm not giving a second round pick for Hill on a one-year loan.

Hill will probably be for our 1st rounder this year which I'm okay with since it's a foregone conclusion we'd lock him up on a long term deal.  He's only 28, still in his prime. 

Yeah, if Adams just fetched a 1st and a 2nd, not shocking that Hill would get at least a 1st for a trade. Then again, rosters and salary caps are kinda set. How many teams can just absorb a massive contract extension right now? Or even his $22 Million cap hit? His market might be limited due to financials and the fact that the Chiefs don't want to trade him to other AFC playoff teams. Which is a bit of a slap at us but we didn't make the playoffs last year so it's fair.

Adam Schefter is reporting that both Miami and NY have trade offers in place and it's kind of up to Hill on where he wants to become the "highest paid WR in NFL history".

If it comes down to teams and locations, Miami is an absolute no brainer. NY sucks(my opinion), is more expensive and has higher taxes and cost of living. Not even talking about the football teams where we are better in every way as well. If the money is the same, it has to be Miami.

Well with the acquisition of Tyreek Hill for primarily Miami's 1st and 2nd pick, I guess Miami isn't planning on drafting any players with "starter" ability right off the bat.

Best player available unless it's a WR or QB. Hell, might even trade the pick for 2023 picks if no one we love is there for us.

It's clear what Grier's philosophy for 2022 is:

(https://preview.redd.it/ob6gn5o4w5p81.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ce643680f02fb34d70f68d594ed704b9d244f2df)

I honestly don't care about the draft to an extent. We've done more for this team in this offseason than we ever do in the draft.

Signing Terron Armstead
Trading for Tyreek Hill
Re-signing DE Emmanuel Ogbah
Re-signing TE Mike Gesicki
Signing Raheem Mostert
Signing RB Chase Edmonds
Re-signing TE Durham Smythe
Signing G Connor Williams
Signing FB Alec Ingold
Signing QB Teddy Bridgewater
Extending a second-round tender on restricted free agent Nik Needham

There are many stories about things looking pretty ugly until the process is fully layed out and everything is great. Well according to Travis Wingfield the Laremy Tunsil trade has now produced Jaylen Waddle, Tyreek Hill, and Jevon Holland…and there’s still a 2023 first rounder to go. Chris Grier is looking pretty good these days.

I wouldn't credit the Tunsil trade for Hill.  Given that MIA had to trade away its own first this year to move back up and get Waddle, SF's first that was traded for Hill (along with 4 other MIA picks) is the rough equivalent of MIA's own trade capital.

Basically, if you think of the Hill trade as strictly involving MIA's assets, it's a lot easier to then think of the Waddle trade as being more directly a transfer of assets gained from the trade with SF.

In any case, I can see the Tunsil trade as responsible for Waddle OR Hill, but not really both.  There were too many MIA picks lost in the transactions to attribute the trade just to Tunsil.

Wow, what a difference 24 hours makes - I did say we would have to probably trade up to get a top WR, and we basically detonated this years draft to do it!

I have to admit feeling just a little torn by it - getting a top WR to go with Waddle was a want, and pick 29 was such a low place to start the draft this year so there are even less guarantees than usual. But there was also a good chance we could have finally drafted for the LB and RB positions with some of the very top prospects, and relatively cheaply. That said I can't blame them cashing in those chips for an elite WR that is already a proven commodity. At least we still have two firsts next year if there are still glaring deficiencies.

 

Absolutely. I love having lots of draft picks but you have to be realistic with them. If you don't have a Top 5 pick, it can be a crapshoot. Who were we going to get with our 1st and 2nd rounder this year better than Tyreek Hill? Even combined with the other picks, unlikely they have the same impact. We have three 1st rounders in 2020 and absolutely blew the last 2 and hopefully nailed the first one.

We still have two 1st rounders in 2023 right now, we're not tapped out.

Barry Jackson is reporting that several teams have shown interest in Parker, mainly the Eagles. He is as good as gone, only thing left is the compensation. I really have no idea, a 4th rounder would be nice I guess. We don't have any leverage since he would be on the bench if not traded.

^^^ Edge, you wrote in the Tyreek Hill thread that Parker can play well when he's motivated. Would you say  that maybe he's worth keeping on the roster this season to see if he steps it up big time to "compete" with Waddel and Hill? That might be enough motivation for Parker.

He was motivated to get paid and he did. I think he is pretty much done until he needs a new contract. He would probably shine on a 1 year deal for someone.

The other thing is we might need to trade him regardless of what we think of him for salary cap reasons. It's just time to move on.

This right here.   Miami gets a proven star receiver to play opposite their rising star.   Kansas City gets out of having to find a way to pay Hill big money next year or risk losing him for nothing and picks up extra draft picks.  They now have two late first round picks this year that they can use to move up to the middle of the first round and grab Williams, Wilson, Olave, or Burks to take Hill's place.   A win for both sides.

For what it's worth, Hill's cap hit this year is just $6.4 Million. It is still possible we sign Tretter and the local reporters still say we want to address center. Probably going to have to get creative with 2023 in terms of cap space but who could deny getting Tretter wouldn't make us even better? Talking Top 10 unit now. Doesn't have to be Top 10 to win, but why not?

The Hill trade demonstrated the team's knowledge of what wins in the NFL in conjunction with its knowledge of its own QB's demonstrated ability.  This article frames it well:

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-the-numbers/2021/5/20/22444495/how-to-build-an-aaron-rodgers-out-of-yac-and-mediocre-quarterbacks

I would expect the next move to be replacing one of those 4th-round picks traded for Hill with a trade of Devante Parker.

^ I wouldn't trade Parker for a 4th. I wouldn't be surprised if that's all we could get for him, but I wouldn't do it.

This is one of those cases where I feel teams massively overvalue lottery tickets, which is what 4th round picks are. Take a look at just receivers, since this is what Parker is, and in the past 4 years, there have been 21 receivers drafted in the 4th round. Of those exactly two thirds contributed *nothing* in the 2021 season. Of the 7 who did contribute, 3 had DVOAs so bad they would have ranked from 85th to way outside the top 100 - had they actually caught enough passes to be listed. They didn't. That leaves 4 guys out of 21: Gabriel Davis, Josh Reynolds, Antonio Callaway, and our own Mack Hollins. Of those, Hollins actually had the highest DVOA. So, basically, what you're HOPING for is a player like Mack Hollins - and the odds of even that small a prize are not great.

Parker's salary is less than $6 million a year for the next two years, so the contract isn't bad if you think you can use Parker in your offensive scheme.

^^^

You're not wrong,but he will truly be the 4th receiver unless Wilson Jr. sucks. Maybe even the 5th option behind Gesicki and we are going towards establishing the run a lot more. So, it comes down to "Will you accept this 4th rounder and some cap space for your 4th or 5th receiving target?". Most teams would say yes. Still, he does have talent when he tries so I would prefer to trade him to the Eagles. I don't want him in the AFC.

^ Wilson was certainly better than Parker last year, but that was Parker's worst year -- and the year before, Parker was better in both DVOA and DYAR. Wilson didn't look hot his rookie year, either.

I haven't watched much Cowboys football, so I haven't really seen him, but nothing on paper screams "upgrade". He is only two years younger - and more expensive - so I don't know.

I don't harbor any illusions that 4th-round picks have tremendous value, but nor do I believe Devante Parker has tremendous value.  The problem with Parker from my vantage point is that he's a low-effort player who earns among the highest salaries on the team, and that isn't consistent with an optimal team culture in my opinion.  Players like that should be jettisoned so they simply aren't paid by the team anymore.  I want my highest-paid players to be exemplars of effort and team commitment.  The value in trading him wouldn't come from the return on the trade -- it would come from simply his absence from the team.

^ The effort thing annoys me too. It's hard to know exactly what the deal is, since it seems like he'll have games where is fully committed and giving it his everything. Receiver salaries seem to have increased substantially the past few years and at $6 million a year, we're not even talking solid #2 receiver money if you're looking at a new contract. We happily paid Will Fuller $10 million to twiddle his thumbs last season - a receiver who had only once broken 800 yards receiving.

Put another way, if a 4th is the limit right now, I'd be tempted to play wait and see. Maybe he does well with the new coaches, maybe some team gets desperate before the season starts. Veteran players (4 years) have their contracts guaranteed if they are on the roster come week 1, so any decision would have to be made before then.

(But if we need his 5 million to keep X happy, I'm happy to ship him off now)

I can go for that.  No hurry.  It's just that I believe you have to compare not only what a player is making to other players throughout the league at his position, but also to what the other players on his own team are making.  You can't have veteran stalwarts at effort and team commitment making roughly the same as or less than Parker, and paying players like him that kind of money doesn't send the correct message to the young players about what the organization values and compensates.

If Parker is healthy (yes, I know that's a big if), he's a pretty good value relative to other receivers in the league.  I definitely wouldn't mind seeing a two-minute drill with Hill/Waddle/Wilson/Parker/Gesicki.

It's just difficult to look at things like this:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dolphins/cap/

...and see Parker's name so close to the top of the list.

I always thought a lot of his injuries was just him not wanting to play at 90%. Not every single one, but when your best and healthiest season is a contract year, you don't get the benefit of the doubt.

But you're right. If he is fully healthy and is our 4th or 5th WR, then who can ever match us in that regard?

If Parker takes the same number of offensive snaps this year he took last year, he'll make about $16,200 per snap against the salary cap.

If Cooper Kupp -- the 2021 NFL Offensive Player of the Year -- does the same thing he'll make about $18,200 per snap against the salary cap.

I think it's not useful to use the default sorting of cap hit when discussing if MIA should get rid of a player.  It's more useful to sort by dead cap - the cap hit MIA will take if he is traded or released.  And on that list, Parker is 16th, right behind (ahem) Noah Igbinoghene.

Just want to say that JC Tretter is still somehow a free agent and hoping we get him at a below market deal.

Are teams scared away because he is President of the NFLPA and they don't want him talking to their players about contracts and stuff? I just don't see why he is still available.

I know I'm late to the party but I think we need Parker. Other than Gesicki we have no size and that's going to be needed ... especially in the red zone. 

I'm warming up to the idea because the baby might be motivated being knocked down to 4th or 5th option and knows his next contract won't be good unless he piles it on soon. Plus, injuries do happen and you can't have too much talent. He is just the kind of guy to be traded to the Steelers and go for 1200 yards next season. So, unless we get a decent enough offer from an NFC team, I am leaning towards keeping him.

On the other hand, you don't want his poor work ethic rubbing off on anyone and cap space is always appreciated. If someone like the Eagles offer a 3rd or a 4th? Hard to turn down.

The biggest reason I want to see him gone is his lack of being there for us but just letting him go for the sake of it doesn't help our team and he can help us when he is healthy. I guess the other postive is he never gets into trouble or talks crap about the team so there is that.

Don't really know where to put this but since he is still on my Miami wishlist, maybe here. JC Tretter, who is the Head of the NFLPA, is pushing the players and agents to get more guaranteed money and years. Unless he wants to be the highest paid Center in the league, it's hard for me to see how he is still a free agent and not connect it with him making these comments as the NFLPA President. I'm thinking the owners don't want him to be a "bad influence" on the other players.

Maybe I'm wrong and he signs with some other team for top dollar tomorrow, but it is perplexing how he is still available.

I can only think they have their eye on someone in the draft with our late 3rd round pick, and are waiting it out until after then.

It's either that or Tretter is just asking for way too much guaranteed money - he's somehow lasted this long without putting pen to paper, maybe they think it will still be the case in a few weeks?

Once the draft is over, rosters are basically set. Teams usually don't have the cap space or position available to sign one of the best centers in the league so he would have to settle for a 1 or 2 year deal. He knows this so the whole deal seems odd.

The draft also impacts the supply and demand dynamics throughout the league.  If a team has drafted a center it believes has ability, it'll be out of the market for the JC Tretters of the world.  So if you're in the market for a JC Tretter, it behooves you to wait until after the draft, when the supply and demand dynamics for players create more of a buyer's market.

It's a bizarre situation but I'm still hung up on it because he makes us better and in the AFC, you take every opportunity to become better. He won't put us over the hump if we aren't already there, but it's undeniable our O-Line would become a much better unit with him over Deiter at Center. I don't trust Grier, but I can hold off my righteousand whiny anger until this all plays out. I will be pissed though if he signs with someone else for 1 Year/$6 Million.

Edge ... just saw this and thought of you. SI and even Tretter himself realizes that his bad press from being the head of the union has cost him.

Does the recent retirement announcement of JC. Tretter explain the reason why we didn't sign him?

Hey Rensek, nope, it’s actually the other way around. Tretter retired because no team showed an interest in signing him this offseason after the Cleveland Browns released him, and he’s probably not wrong when he suggests his role as NFLPA president and his outspokenness about off-the-field issues played a role in that. There’s an interesting story on SI.com about Tretter where he addresses his retirement and a comment he once made that, “My NFLPA job is gonna end my career well before my knees end my career.”

I mean, there is no other reason at this point. There is an argument to be made for not signing the guy at 3 Years/$30 Million, but not one team wanted one of the best centers on a one year deal? He wouldn't retire if someone offered him 1 year/$5 Million. It's almost impossible to prove but this is collusion.

I think the Brian Flores thing is only going to make things like this worse. Teams aren't wanting people who aren't willing to play along. We all know rules get broken here and there but some people make it more difficult than its worth.

And the cuts begin ...

Running back Sony Michel and wide receiver Mohamed Sanu were released, along with running backs Gerrid Doaks and ZaQuandre White, defensive backs Quincy Wilson and Elijah Hamilton, defensive linemen Owen Carney and Niles Scott and offensive linemen Adam Pankey and Blaise Andries. Linebacker Calvin Munson was placed on injured reserve, while outside linebacker Darius Hodge and defensive back D’Angelo Ross were waived with an injury settlement.

Fine with the cuts so far.  That brings the roster down to 67, so I'd expect 15-17 more players on the roster to be gone (14 to make 53, then 1-3 more cuts to pick up castoffs from other teams).

That's pretty much what I'm thinking as well. It wouldn't surprise me to see us pick up some more o-line and DB help.

The only players on the bubble that I would be disappointed to lose are Skylar and Ez E.  Everyone else is... whatever.

I don't see both Gaskin and Ahmed making it but not sure who gets cut. They just cut Lynn Bowden and I didn't think that was going to happen. I wonder if that is the person Skyler Thompson is costing?

Dolphins cut Porter Gustin, Kellen Diesch, and Solomon Kindley. Kindley looked pretty good the other night but obviously overweight. I'm guessing that was his demise.

What an absolutely bizarre story with Kindley. 4th round rookie does pretty well in his first season, then can't even touch the field in his second season despite the O-Line being horrible. Now, instead of being a cheap backup or competing for a spot, we release him outright. What the hell happened?

Two different coaching staffs with the same results. Definitely strange. I wonder if we will ever find out. I have to believe he gets picked up somehwere else.

At this point, I could only imagine his heart is not into football and he will be walking away. No way do we cut him while he is dirt cheap if he is just struggling with blocking assignments. Has to be more than that.