The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Dolphins lose their 2023 first rounder and 2024 third rounder and Ross is fined $1.7 million for violating the integrity of the game.   Not sure exactly what happened but it shows how much of a buffoon Ross is.

This was for all that stuff with Brady and Sean Payton.

Ross is a bozo.


Oh, also Ross is suspended through October.

NFL suspended Dolphins owner Stephen Ross until October 17 and stripped the team of their 2023 first-round pick and 2024 third-round pick for tampering violations.

Ross is also barred from any league meetings until the Annual Meeting in 2023, has been removed from all league committees, and was fined $1.5 million. The report found the Dolphins "had impermissible communications" with Tom Brady in 2019, 2020, and 2021 as well as former Saints coach Sean Payton in January of 2022. Neither person ended up working for the organization. Miami was also investigated for tanking after former coach Brian Flores claimed Ross offered him $100,000 per game to intentionally lose in 2019. The league found that comment "was not intended or taken to be a serious offer."

This came as a shock and man, that really sucks for us as we wanted that extra 1st rounder as Tua insurance. Now, our draft hopes are on the Niners tanking.

What is going to be lost in this is that they investigated Flores' claims about being paid to tank and found they had no merit. I don't know if that means nothing Flores said was right or just this one thing for now. I guess we'll hear more in the future.

Either way, time to dump Ross.

We deserve this, by the way.

Can't be running shit like a mob boss....poorly at that.

Yeah, the team suffers for his own stupidity. There are things to admire about Ross, but this was so stupid and I'm sure left the NFL no choice but to fine us. However, Ross should really be suspended for a year or more, don't just make our loss of draft picks the big thing. That won't hurt a billionairre in his 80s.

Ross just released a statement and among the things he said was that the NFL cleared them of any wrong doing in regards to Brian Flores and all his allegations. Not shocked by this to be honest. Good to at least put that to bed.

Keep your mouth shut and don't put anything against the rules in writing. Why is this so hard?

Fortunately we have another 1st round pick. Ross has done a lot of good things for the franchise so I'm not going to be too quick to judge. All teams tamper so I'm guessing this was a compromise of sorts.

Doesn't sound like Flores is too happy with how things turned out.

Flores - I am thankful that the NFL’s investigator found my factual allegations against Stephen Ross are true. At the same time, I am disappointed to learn that the investigator minimized Mr. Ross’s offers and pressure to tank games especially when I wrote and submitted a letter at the time to Dolphins executives documenting my serious concerns regarding this subject at the time which the investiagtor has in her possession. While the investigator found that the Dolphins had engaged in imperimissible tampering of “unprecedented scope and severity,” Mr. Ross will avoid any meaningful consequence. There is nothing more important when it comes to the game of football itself than the integrity of the game. When the integrity of the game is called intro question, fans suffer, and football suffers.

Tell that bitch to stay mad. The only factual claims the NFL proved was that Ross made a joke about wanting a better draft pick and stopped making that joke once Flores wrote a letter. The NFL would love to get all the bad stuff out of the way at once so if there was any merit to his claims, they would've suspended Ross for even longer or worse. They didn't because there is nothing there.

This is what we get for not rightfully firing a coach who starts the season 1-7 in his 3rd year.

Funny how the Dolphins never were accused of cheating until they allowed a former Patriots coaching staff member into their organization.

Looks like it's now ride or die with Tua for the next several years, unless the 49ers absolutely implode this season.

If traianing camp is any indication that won't be an issue. He and his recievers are having a ball out there right now. Waddle even looked pretty good against really good coverage from Howard.

Pretty sure it was going to be that way regardless. Even if Tua doesn't break out into a Top 10 QB this seaosn, it's ALMOST impossible to not put up "good enough" numbers with Hill/Waddle/Wilson/Gesicki plus our very likely improved O-Line and Running Game. He would have to Josh Rosen the season for management to make the decision to move on in the offseason.

I don't see the Niners imploding but if Trey Lance isn't ready to lead that team, they will definitely miss the playoffs.

Flores is right.  The NFL has some pretty twisted logic.

Allegation:  Ross wanted Flores to tamper with Brady.

NFL:  Ross denied tampering with Brady or asking Flores to tamper with Brady.  We conclude there is multiple sources of evidence proving Ross did in fact tampered with Brady, however, the only evidence that Ross asked Flores to tamper with Brady is Flores's word.    We conclude Ross was lying in his denial of tampering with Brady but is telling the truth about his interaction with Flores.  We trust the integrity of Ross over Flores. 

Allegation:  Ross offered Flores money to tank games, Flores refused.

NFL:  We conclude the offer was made, but it was made in jest.  The only evidence that we have that it was made in jest was that Flores didn't tank the games.  But that is sufficient because we trust the integrity of Ross over Flores.   

Funny listening to Hoch and Crowder and the points they are bringing up. Everyone does it, Heat have made a living out of doing it, and why isn't Brady being punished for agreeing to meet, free agents sign at midnight every year etc ..  

Crowder ... this is just like speeding on the Turnpike. Everyone does it.

Mike Cugno ... yes, if they had a video of you speeding and the whole country is watching you do it.

You can say that about any sport. Basketball makes a lottery because they know teams quit playing to win. Football signs free agents at midnight but yet they aren't allowed to tamper. Every sport is about money and integrity comes second. They are more in tune to tryng to make it look like they have integrity than actually having it.

Ross was never in any danger as the owners weren't going to hurt one of their own because they might be next.

Dave Hyde - Every owner knows how to tamper without being a league-wide conversation. Every team knows how to tank without having to float a bribe to the coach to lose games. This is Ownership 101, folks. This isn’t anything close to the heavy lifting of winning.

I think the only thing Ross did wrong was having a coach who did have integrity. Enough so to his detriment.

I look at this way. When I got into inspecting I, like many others, were by the book. I thought everything was black and white per the specs  After enough times of realizing everything can't fit into the square box,  I learned to make decisions on the gray areas. I ask myself what are we is the intent that we are trying to accomplish rather than what does the book say? We all do or it just wouldn't work. I don't think Flores has learned that yet and Ross is paying the price for it. 

Players can't tamper.  

For example.

Player X on team A says in a press conference.  "I hated it on team A.  Team B please trade for me"  (NOT TAMPERING)

Next day- coach on Team B is asked about Player X.  If the coach says they would love to have player X it is tampering.  In fact pretty much the only thing the coach can say is "we don't discuss players that are under contract with other teams"

If player X calls team B.  (NOT TAMPERING by the player)  If team B agrees to talk with player X not that is TAMPERING by the team.

Players are not subject to any anti-tampering rules.  



  

Also, you want plausible deniability.  Don't get caught tampering by not doing what is tampering by the book.  Skirt the edges of it.

But whatever you do, whoever you're playing in the gray area with (presumably Flores), make sure that they're on the same page that you are.  You have to test the waters. 

"I really wish we had a guy like Brady on our team."
"We should invite him down for the day on the boat -- pick his brain -- see what makes him tick."
"Maybe we can get a feel for if he'd be a good fit for us if he ever wanted to be traded."

If the guy you're with doesn't pick up what you're putting down, don't progress the situation.  Certainly don't set up a meeting and sideline your coach who wants no part of it.


I'm not even condoning it, but you have to talk in code with each other and the players as well.  You can't just put the stuff out there directly.

But if the coach keeps silent on the matter and then works out a trade for the player, is it still tampering?

If a coach knows a player wants to be traded and works out a deal with his team for a trade it is not tampering.  Tampering is going around the current team or hampering the current teams rights.

I know the rule but it still doesn't answer the question. Why are owners held to different standards than players. It should be a rule or not a rule. Is tampering wrong or not?

At first, my boy and I were pissed when we heard about this, but then I thought more about it and unfortunately, I agree that he definitely needed to be reprimanded for it. It just sucks that it's a 1st round pick next year. the 3rd round pick in '24 is a little less sucky, but the 1st round hits hard.

I think he is a bozo and agree when I heard about this tampering that he probably did this.  He's that dumb enough to try and pull this off.

Hopefully, this doesn't affect the play of the Dolphins this season and they can rise above the talk. Hope the 49ers suck this year so that pick is a better one.

When Ross first approached Harbaugh, we all assumed it was because he was a buffoon and new to the game of being an NFL owner...

I'm really pissed off at this - I have no sympathy for him at all, and can't wait for him to be gone. That he can't seemingly learn from his mistakes to me says he thinks he's above the rules and above the law, and this time it has really burnt the team. Losing those draft picks next year is going to be very costly.

Ross is paying for this personally too, and I'm not talking about the $1.7M fine. According to one source, as well as the team suspension to mid-October he will also be removed from some of the NFL’s most important committees: Finance; NFL media; international; and legal sports betting. That's a pretty damning message in itself, and I have my doubts his reputation will ever really recover from it.  

This seems weird because Hoodie's description is wrong.  Players can, indeed, be guilty of tampering.  Just not of tampering with themselves.

Player A is a current member of the Rams.
Player B, under contract with the Chargers, complains on Twitter about his playing time.
Player A replies on Twitter, "Come over to our locker room... it's right down the hall."

This is textbook tampering and will result in a fine.

You logically cannot tamper with yourself, which is why players don't get hit with tampering fines for saying they want out of their current team.  Similarly, a team would not be hit with a tampering fine for saying, "Player X no longer has a place in our locker room and we'll be exploring our options."

If you say so.  But I don't recall a player ever being fined for tampering.  But I do recall statements made by players about other players that if said by a coach would be tampering.

Also if Tom Brady was to spend a week during the off season hanging out on Devin McCourty's yacht nobody would think anything of it.   However, if he was to spend a week hanging out with Josh McDaniels it would be tampering.    

Not sure if your position is that tampering rules are different between leagues, but:

Draymond Green gets $50,000 tampering fine for saying Devin Booker should leave Suns (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29628273/draymond-green-gets-50000-tampering-fine-saying-devin-booker-leave-suns)

I don't follow basketball that closely.  I don't recall an *NFL* player punished for tampering.  But rules differences between the leagues is definitely a thing. 

Different leagues do have different rules.   In the NBA, you'd be out of the league if you refused to stand for the national anthem.

I tried posting this earlier but got pulled away. Apparently the player can be punished.

As for Brady, the reason he's not being punished is because the NFL's anti-tampering policy puts the onus on teams to report any outside tampering. Basically, the team that does the tampering can be punished, but the player can't. If the Dolphins reached out to Brady first, then they were the ones who tampered. On the other hand, if Brady reached out first, then the Dolphins were supposed to report that to the NFL.

Here's the exact wording of the rule from the league's anti-tampering policy:
"If a club is contacted by a player (or his representative) who is under contract to or whose negotiating rights are held by another club, and such player has not been given permission to negotiate with other clubs, or such player is not in a permissible negotiating period under the terms of an operative collective bargaining agreement, then the contacted club is prohibited from (i) negotiating with the player or his agent; (ii) discussing even in general terms the player's possible employment with the contacted club; or (iii) discussing the player's contract or his potential or ongoing contract negotiations with his current club."

If Brady reached out to the Dolphins, he had no responsibility to report that a conversation took place, which is why he won't be punished. As for the Dolphins, they clearly didn't follow the NFL's anti-tampering policy, which is why the NFL came down so hard on them.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/top-nfl-training-camp-trades-of-the-past-10-years-khalil-mack-laremy-tunsil-deals-among-most-notable/

If that's your position, fine:

Examples?

I recall there was a QB a few years ago (I think it was either Rodgers or Rothsburger, but don't hold me to that) who named in a press conference specific wide receivers he wanted his team to trade for. (*trade for* not free agents)  The only issue was that the QB was throwing his current WRs under the bus, no chatter about tampering.

Also I recall reporting that prior to the Patriots trading for Moss, Tom and Randy had talked extensively and basically Tom had recruited Randy to force a trade to NE.  Given how much folks love (particularly in 2007) to accuse NE of cheating, if that was even close to being illegal it would have been a major hubabu, but even Patriots haters didn't say boo. 

The example I cited was of Draymond Green saying, on camera, that another player should leave his current team.  Not "someone reported that someone else heard that Draymond Green told Devin Booker he should leave."

You said that different leagues have different rules, implying that this kind of conduct - which drew a $50k fine in the NBA - would be handwaved in the NFL.  Fine.

Do you have examples of actual public quotes from players?  Or were you referring entirely to hearsay reporting about rumors around the league?

Ross didn't get punished because there was reporting that he contacted Brady and Payton; he got punished because the league verified that it happened, which happened as a result of an investigation triggered by a grievance filed by a previous employee.  Give me an example of a player publicly tampering with a player under contract to another team and not being punished.

Tyreek Hill tweeted to @Jalen Ramsey "let's go" when he was rumored to be looking for a trade

Or, put another way: Hill tweeted "let's go" to Ramsey which was totally unrelated to his employment.

I am not talking about rumors or reports.  So unless that Hill tweet was a direct reply to a Jalen Ramsey tweet saying "I want to be traded" - not a tweet of a frowny face emoji, or a tweet of "SMH", but a tweet directly asking to be traded - it means nothing.

He deleted it so obviously someone thought there wa something wrong. Proof of violation of rules doesn't require a jury of your peers in the NFL world.

But it does require proof, which this is very far from being.
This is why Hill did not receive a punishment for tampering.  Q.E.D.

Teams are also not being punished based on rumors or innuendo about tampering; they are being punished for confirmed events.  MIA wouldn't have even been investigated if it weren't for Flores' grievance.

And multiple teams have been punished for tampering.  Why?  Because (1) there is a rule and (2) those teams broke the rule. 

To the best of everyone's knowledge no NFL player has been punished or accused of tampering.  This means there is either (1) no rule or (2) there is a rule but nobody has ever broken it.   Do you really believe it is the latter?


https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/2018%20Policies/7-2018%20Anti-Tampering%20Policy-Clean%20Version.pdf

I can find nothing to suggest that a player could be punished for tampering. 

If NFL players are commonly making statements like Draymond's clear cut "they gotta get him out of Phoenix" quote, why can't anybody find one?  Why are we instead talking about the time that a player tweeted a praying hands emoji to another player that was rumored to be disgruntled?

Or, put another way: since we know that players can definitely be punished for tampering in the NBA, and there are far more reports about NBA players recruiting each other than any other league (BY A WIDE MARGIN), why don't we see a bunch of reports of NBA players hit with tampering fines?

The answer is not because tampering is less permissible in the NBA than in the NFL.  The answer is that rumors and innuendo don't matter; the league needs direct proof and most players are not dumb enough to tamper in public.  Contrast this to, say, the Kansas City Chiefs, who leaked out contract terms for a newly signed player (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-hammers-chiefs-for-tampering-with-huge-fine-loss-of-two-draft-picks/) a day before they were allowed to begin talking to him.  Of course you're going to get investigated when you do that kind of nonsense, and investigations lead to proof.

Funny thing is, this is the third time a team has had its first round pick taken away.  Tom Brady has been connected to all three incidents.

I posted the actual NFL policy, the entire policy.  It only talks about what "member clubs" can and can not do.  Nothing about players other than what a member club must do if a player tries to contact them. 

As the article about Green states:   
The NBA has a recently added rule against player-to-player tampering.  The NFL doesn't. 

And all three times the the punishment was administrated by a former Jets employee against an AFCE team.  Unlike when a Jets employee tripped a Dolphin's player in a game and it was only a fine with no loss of draft picks.   

Mike Florio (PFT) originally broke the Brady to Miami story and then the Brady/Payton story. He is now suggesting Miami already had deals in place with Tampa and New Orleans and as such that's why neither got compensated for the violation. He doesn't think the Patriots cared since they weren't planning to keep him. 

If true it just furthur proves how Ross isn't alone in these things.

So I'm guessing everyone has now heard from Dana White about the Raiders having a deal in place for Tom Brady and tight end Rob Gronkowski.  LOL .... what's the chance the league files an investigation into this and punishes the Raiders as well?

Depends on whether Jon Gruden dimes them out during his lawsuit.