The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Less and less people are trusting government and it isn't just those whacky Republicans some of you like to blame it on.

In a new survey, Rasmussen Reports asked 1000 likely voters whether they agreed with Trump loyalist Roger Stone, who last year said the FBI had become President Joe Biden's 'personal Gestapo.'

At the time he said it, some 46 percent of voters agreed with that assessment.

Now, some 53 percent of voters agree - including 34 percent, who strongly agree.

The numbers divide along party lines. Seventy-six percent of Republicans agree with Stone while 57 percent of Democrats disagree.

So if I'm reading that correctly 66% of Republicans and 43% of Democrats agree with Roger Stone's accusation. Any way you slice it this can't be good for our country. 


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11127495/Majority-American-voters-believe-FBI-Bidens-Gestapo-Mar-Lago-raid-poll-finds.html

To the heart of the question, is the FBI politicized, I think is what it's asking.

But the Daily Mail is trash, as you have been told a lot, and I'd like you to look at how they're phrasing the data, as a way to trick readers.

This is not a binary poll.  There is agree/disagree/not sure....

Where you said "if I'm reading this correctly"....and you were right to do so.  You're not reading the data correctly.   They're reporting those that agree (for Republicans) and those that Disagree (for Democrats), while not referencing the "no opinion/nor sure" crowd.  It's data manipulation.

What does it mean, in general?  The GOP has wage a war on institutions: voting, schools, FBI...there will be more, I'm sure.  So, they're running 24 hour propaganda about how these things can't be trusted and then writing turd pieces like this.  "See -- people don't trust the thing that we've been saying isn't trustworthy!"

I also ask you this: What the fuck is a personal gestapo?  Like....what does that even mean?


Trump stole nuclear government shit, got subpoenaed, refused to return it, has his attorney lie and say it was returned, then they came in and took it back.  This isn't even a political matter.  Biden ain't got shit to do with it.  ...you gotta go after and prosecute people who steal government secrets and refuse to give them back.

As for Biden trying to knock Trump out of running again, I think you'll find that most people on the left would prefer to face Trump over a more moderate candidate.  It would be really dangerous to win, but a guy you just beat who has only become less popular and being investigated for espionage is a pretty good guy to go against again.

What I don't get is why Republicans don't just fuckin' dump him already and move on.  He's a weight around their neck.

Christopher A. Wray, who was appointed by Trump. is Joe Biden's personal Gestapo?  

Give me a fucking break.  

Edited to add:

You ostracized me for mentioning that Trump had compared himself to Hitler.  Yet you cheer on Stone and the DailyMail in their comparison of Hitler and Biden.  You fucking hypocrite. 

Not sure of your point Dave. It's a Rasmusen poll. Regardless of how DM is reporting it the poll results are the same.

Exactly the problem it's a Rasmussen poll.  Rasmussen use to be a highly biased polling company.  But in the last decade they have morphed into an organization that provides misinformation in the form of highly skewed polling data.

Let's say that the poll is "do you like hot dogs"?

50% of Americans like hot dogs.  30 percent do not.  20 percent have no opinion.
30% of Foreigners like hot dogs.  50% do not.  20 percent have no opinion.

If these were your factors, the proper way to report this is:  50% of Americans like hot dogs, while only 30% of foreigners do.

It would be irresponsible to say 50% of Americans like hot dogs.  50% of foreigners do not.

Though technically correct, it is intentionally comparing one side's approval with one side's disapproval in a poll that isn't binary. 

That is what this poll reporting is doing.  It isn't releasing the data.  You said yourself "if I'm reading that correctly .... 43% of Democrats agree with Roger Stone."   But you are not reading that correctly.  That's not what the data says, yet that's what you took away from it because the Daily Mail is intentionally being deceptive.

They actually do a lot worse than that.  They use earlier questions to minipulate the underlying data. 

I don't mean to poo-poo your point, CF.  Actually, I'm not sure what point you're making of what you're asking.

I just find it annoying that they're manipulating the data and not reporting the full data set in the article.  That's just annoying and that person who wrote that is not trying to enlighten their reader, they're pushing an agenda not supported by their data.  I just don't like that.

That said, I don't love the FBI, historically.  They've been on the wrong side of a lot of shady shit over the years.  They're full of conservatives also, so the idea that this is Biden's personal attack group is just kinda silly.  But whatever.  I'm not in the FBI's pocket.

One thing about this Trump thing that I think is kinda nice is that the court of public opinion doesn't matter.  Once stuff is in the legal system and people are under oath, polls and all that don't matter.  It's only about facts and what laws actually are.  If Trump did illegal things, there is a process to deal with that.  If he didn't, no matter how much I don't like him, there will not be evidence to convict.  I just want the truth exposed and for things to be handled fairly.  I don't want Trump to get pinned with things that he didn't do, just because he's a shitty person.

Looks like defund the police has gained a bunch of new supporters!  The line for ACAB t-shirts forms to the left.

There is a very easy way to cut to the chase here:

CF, do you have a problem with any branch of federal law enforcement that is NOT investigating Donald Trump?

ding-ding-ding...we have a winner.

Is there a law enforcement agency that has investigated Trump at some point?  He sued by many before becoming Prez. for fraud, discrimination etc.

Spider the same could be said in reverse with much more evidence to contradict themselves. It isn't very difficult to find the liberal movement of defunding the police who now have turned into support the FBI no matter what. Conservatives in general, and apparently some liberals, do not question the men and women of the FBI as much as the people leading them. That's a huge difference. There isn't a movement to disband the FBI because it is currently being led by people with a political agenda. Before you post some guy pushing for that movement let me assure you there are people who think the world is flat too but we know that still isn't the norm.

Defund the police was never about the FBI.  And for good reason. The FBI isn't perfect, but it is extremely rare they engage in the horrible behavior that local police do.  The FBI doesn't shoot unarmed citizens. The FBI doesn't arrest 3 year old for public urination in city parks.  The FBI doesn't arrest people for one joint. The FBI doesn't handcuff second graders for wearing sunglasses in class.  The FBI doesn't arrest 15 year olds for child porn because they have a photo of a 15 yo classmate topless when it was the girl in the picture that took the photo and text it to him.  The FBI doesn't do no knock warrents on homes the target moved out of 18 months ago.

What the FBI do is go after serious crimes: actual child porn, terrorism, drug cartels, stealing top secret documents.  The stuff I actually want law enforcement doing.

Here is another poll.  Before the we learned about the top secret documents. Half of Americans thought Trump should face criminal charges.  Most thought he wouldn't be charged.  But half thought he did commit a crime.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/poll-trump-should-be-charged-for-jan-6-about-half-of-americans-say

This is the same BS argument y'all pulled when Trump fired Comey: "Liberals wanted him fired and now they all love him!" Yes, Comey deserved to be fired, but not for refusing to end the investigation into Russian election interference (which is what Trump directly said he fired him for).

Similarly, yes, the FBI has serious problems with who they target and how they operate, from the days of J. Edgar Hoover trying to smear MLK, to the days of infiltrating and spying on mosques, to rogue FBI offices "forcing" Comey to announce a reopening of the investigation into Hillary a week before the election (as he quietly sits on the simultaneous ongoing investigation into Trump).

But y'all don't give a shit about any of that; in fact, you cheer it wildly.  The sole and exclusive problem you have is that the FBI showed up at Mar-A-Lago to confiscate federal property that Trump illegally stole and refused to return with the rest of the papers they retrieved the FIRST time they asked him nicely to return all the documents he stole.

LOL ... how's this for your hypothesis?  If Trump did have the top secret stuff like plans for nuclear bomb then I have no problem with him being charged etc. The problem lies in the fact the whole thing was odd and still appears to be odd. Regardless of how this turns out right now it looks to be a politically motivated stunt ... even by some liberals and independents. It is far from the clear cut case you guys are seeing on your beloved MSNBC.  hahaha

It's not.

He was subpoenas to return documents.  He didn't do it.  His attorney said that everything was returned when it wasn't.  So, they sent in a team to recover it, just like would happen to anyone.

How can you say this is a political stunt?   The dude refused to return classified docs.  It's pretty straight-forward. 

That's exactly what I mean. You buy into the story 100% while more than half of America doesn't or at least has serious questions that need to be answered. I would think by now you would see that nothing is 100% like it is originally portrayed by media or politicians. The American public as a whole questions most things these days. I'm guessing you thought Trump was guilty of having a stripper pee on him while he was selling the US out to Putin as well but that turned out to be a fabricated story paid for by the Clintons.

It was a political stunt, just like:

In 1973 the Justice department knowing one day Trump would run for president accused Trump of violating the Fair Housing Act.  

In 1985 the City of New York, knowing one day Trump would run for president accused Trump of using illegal tactics to evict tenants.  

In 1988 the Justice department in its continuing effort do foil Trump's political asperations sued him for anti-Trust violations.  

In 2000 New York State Lobbying Commission also joined the witch hunt against future presidential candidate Trump for his illegal lobbying activities.  

In 2001 the SEC joined in the attempt to derail Trump's political asperations.

Then in 2003 the Germans even joined the effort to undermine the future prez for political reasons.  Maybe that was why he and Angela Markel has such off relations.  

In 2013 the NY state atty general sued Trump over his fake university.  

All of these were politically motivated to prevent Trump from building his wall.  

You guess incorrectly.  I never bought into the pee-pee tapes as that was just undocumented rumors and speculation.  I never saw that reported as fact.  To me, that's Hunter Biden's laptop territory.  It might be based in something partially true, but who cares -- there's not evidence of it.

I only listed facts.
Trump was believed to have classified docs (in itself, not a big deal).
Trump was subpoenaed for docs. (Also, not a huge deal -- maybe he didn't know he had them)
Trump's attorney reported to the FBI that all docs were returned, when they were not (weird....could the attorney have thought the were returned?)
Trump released all these weird statements insinuating docs were planted, etc.
FBI came to get the unreturned docs from the subpoena. 

Now, I'm not just saying we throw him in jail.  I believe in due process.  They have to go through and investigate if stuff is missing and why this all went down the way it did.