The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Not only is Sean Payton himself seeking between $20-25 Million a year to coach a team, but the Saints consider two 1st rounders the starting point for negotiations.

Sean is a very nice Head Coach, but he also had a Hall of Famer at QB and only won one Superbowl. The current highest is Bill Belichick as HC/GM at $20 Million and then Pete Carroll at $15 Million. Both of these demands are absolutely ludicrous and will never come to fruition. So, either they both drop their demands substantially or Sean has to ride out his Saints contract for 3 more years.

This whole thing is dumb.  I wouldn't trade a McChicken for him.

If you are an owner and you are balking at the contract numbers for a head coach - which does not count against the cap - you are in the wrong business.  Sell your team and go open a chain of Subways.

As far as trade value: Jon Gruden, with zero championships, was traded from OAK to TB for two firsts and two seconds.  Belichick was traded from NYJ to NE for a first, a fourth, and a fifth.  Parcells was traded from NE to NYJ for a first, a second, a third, and a fourth.  I don't think two firsts for Payton is unreasonable.

I absolutely agree about owners needing to pay up for winning teams, but I also know that they are discreetly or upfront colluding together. The other 31 owners will not be very happy if you blow away the salary structure for coaches by $10 Million a year. Assuming Payton gets $25 Million and I'm not counting Belichick because he is the GM too.

As far as the compensation goes, no team that is close to contending would trade for him. That only leaves the mediocre or bad teams and they need all the picks they can get. It is 100% possible they trade that much for him anyway, but the combo of the salary and trade copmpensation makes a deal in this range unlikely.

The funny thing was Drew Brees was just another failed draft pick until he played for Sean. I have no idea if he will be successful but if I was a team trapped in no playoff hell he would be interesting to look at.

There are probably lots of teams who would want him in theory, but where would he go? Harbaugh and Klingsbury removed themselves from consideration because the pool is so low this year for available jobs and they're not really desirable.

-Denver is intriguing, but they have little draft picks and if Wilson is washed, the team is doomed.
-Cardinals can perhaps turn it around quickly if Kyler Murray gets his shit together, but I don't know their cap or draft situation.
-Texans are a talentless disaster but have the #2 pick. No way in hell are they trading that away.
-Colts in a similar situation, no QB.
-Panthers have no QB and but the 9th overall pick which is high to trade for a coach.

Just a bad year for Payton to be available. The money MIGHT be possible, but not with the draft compensation. None of those teams are in any position to trade away multiple first rounders with their current rosters.

There are only 32 of them in the world. I don't know that any are undesireable to those who are in the business.

Harbaugh would be in the NFL right now if he found any of those jobs desirable. It's not that they aren't desirable to a Coordinator who would be grateful for any chance to become a Head Coach. They're undesirable to the top names who know they can wait until next year for better options as there almost are. The Colts owner is insane and is about to rehire Jeff Saturday and his 1-7 interim record, even though he wasn't nearly as good as that record indicates. That is not a desirable job, especially with no QB.

You will see Harbaugh and Klingsbury resurface next year in HC searches. Payton too as I just don't think any team is a fit for him right now.

I think Sean Peyton holds the cards here, what's preventing him from showing up in NO and saying, "i'm un-retiring. i'm your head coach under contract, where's my team?"

NO can either fire him at that point or pay 2 head coaches at the same time

That's the other part of the equation. The Saints right now are crap with no QB and no 1st rounder, Sean Payton won't be doing anything for that team. The Saints can get back one 1st rounder, but if they try to get multiple picks and hurt the team he is about to join, then why would Payton go there? Like you said, he will just come back and be the Head Coach or the team pays him millions of dollars to stay home. Fairly certain he can't be traded without his permission.

They have no real leverage.

We don't have any first round picks to offer them anyway.

So what's going on here?

Is he under contract with the Saints?

I thought when a coach gets fired, he gets all the money left on his contract because his contract is over.  

Why would a coach want to give away his draft picks before going to a job?  Shouldn't he just play hardball? 

Payton wasn't fired by the Saints; he retired.  As I understand it, that means two things:

1) Payton doesn't get paid
2) If Payton un-retires, NO still has his rights for 3 more years (and would need to resume his salary to keep those rights)

Can't Payton unretire and force their hand after they have a new guy and a new system?  I guess he'd have to be willing to coach the Saints for 3 years.  But he could make it absolutely clear that he had no intention of continuing past those 3 years.

I doubt the Saints would want that deal.

Yes...THIS!!

Yeah, they really have no leverage. I imagine these guys do have a good relationship though so maybe he wouldn't want to do that, but he would probably have no desire to go to another team that already stinks and lost 5 draft picks in a trade for him.

I might be off on Payton as he has now interviewed or agreed to interview with the Broncos, Panthers, Cardinals and Texans. If he will interview with the Texans, the guy is going to coach next year no matter what and that includes an absurd compensation that leaves his new team with no draft capital.

Imagine the Texans without a couple of 1st rounders? Can't think of a worse team.

He's just unaffordable for the Dolphins, they don't have the picks to give.  Not to mention as much as I may criticize McD he has earned a second year to get things right.

Maybe I jumped the gun on being wrong. Fox Sports Mike Garafolo is reporting it's more than likely that Payton returns to Fox as an analyst than takes a job this offseason. Main issue appears to be the compensation, which is no surprise.

That is certainly an obstacle, but I think an equally large one is that there aren't many jobs open and most of them suck. Who the hell wants to coach the Colts or Texans? Even before they give up a bunch of first rounders, they're very undesirable positions. He hinted that the Broncos are balking at the Saints asking price and since they mortgaged the farm for Wilson, losing any more picks is probably off the table.

It would probably be smart for Payton to wait a year and slide into the Chargers job, where they have Pro Bowlers all around the roster but constantly underachieve.

I feel that is the main reason why Harbaugh went back to Michigan so quickly, the jobs this coaching cycle just aren't very good. Why set yourself up for failure?

Payton's contract with the Saints runs through 2024, so unless he wants to wait until 2025 to coach, compensation with the Saints will have to be agreed upon. There has been some speculation that Payton could play hardball and simply go back to the Saints, forcing them to either rip up his contract or suddenly having to change head coach, but it's not clear that he could actually do that. It all depends on what the contract says, but it seems likely that the Saints would be able to "just" pay Payton's salary and stick him in a corner closet.

His contract is essentially frozen since he retired, so the Saints will have his rights into 2039 and beyond if he is stays home. He can't wait them out, only force their hand by unretiring which they might be okay with or asking them not to fleece his new team.

That's the case with players simply because that is specified directly in the CBA, but that's not how it generally works for employment contracts. I have seen nothing to indicate that he cannot wait them out and all the media sources I was able to pull up just now say he is locked in until 2024 (even those written this month). None go into any real detail, though, so they (and I) could be mistaken.

Somewhat related, but Cowboy's DC Dan Quinn is staying with Dallas. That's probably a combination of not having many desirable jobs on the market and Jerry Jones promising him the HC job if he fires McCarthy midseason.

One of the worst coaching cycles that I can remember, all the top names will have stayed put if Payton goes back to Fox Sports, which hs is very likely to do right now. Next year will probably be a repeat with only 1 or 2 good jobs to take and a bunch of top guys who want them.

The unretiring provisions seem pretty stupid. 

If a guy retires with three years on left on his contract and the player or coach wants to unretire after one year the team should be able to choose to:

1. Take him back under the same terms.  (Including trading him) OR
2. Release him without owing any bonuses, future guarantee etc. OR
3. Tell him he needs to wait out his contract and will be a FA in 2 more years.

Allowing a player or coach to retire and then force the team with an unretire is stupid.

All but finalized that Sean Payton will be the Broncos next head coach. I guess Sean really wants to coach next season because if the Broncos give up significant draft compensation, he will be going to a pretty bad team unless Russell can make a comeback. If he can't, he is an albatross they can't get away from for years in a pretty tough division.

I wouldn't expect any playoff games from Denver next season.

EDIT: Denver will give up their 2023 1st rounder and 2024 2nd rounder and get back a 3rd rounder, I believe in 2024.

I don't know their cap situation, but they barely have any draft picks to improve for years due to the Wilson and now Payton trade. They will have to strike it huge with bargain free agent deals or late round draft picks to become a contender.

Wow. Denver has more than likely sunk themselves for 15 years

DEN still has every single pick from 2025 forward and you think they have sunk themselves "for 15 years"?

I don't think any of the first-round picks in 2007 or 2008 would have had any impact on the Dolphins' season last year, no matter who they were.

It is a lot of lottery tickets to give up, plus some cheap contracts, so the next 4-5 years are going to be tough. They had a fairly easy schedule and one of the worst offenses in the league. Sure, the 5 wins they got was maybe a bit unlucky, but it did take a top 10 defense to manage that and defensive performance doesn't have as high a year-to-year correlation as offensive performance, so it might be tough to keep that up. With the Chiefs in the division, it's going to be Wild Card hunting for a while and if the Chargers and Herbert get rolling as well, it could be an even tougher division.

Still, you have to think ownership is thinking more than 2 years ahead on this. If Wilson doesn't turn things around, it might be worth it to just suck for a couple of years and make trades for future picks. Mahomes is only 27, though, so you have to figure the Chiefs are going to be tough for a long while yet.

Two straight years of no 1st or 2nd rounders adds up, especially for a team that isn't good to begin with. If Wilson can't rebound, that team has almost no chance of rebuilding any time soon unless they get some high end starters in the later rounds.

They gave up a 1st rounder this year and went down by one round from 2nd to 3rd next year.  So about average as coach trades go.  What they paid for Wilson was pretty steep. 

Problem for both Wilson and Payton is that it could hurt the team for the next 3-4 years.  And if the team have 3 losing seasons in a row, I doubt either one will be around for the fourth. 

Yeah I was gonna say 25’ is a ways off, you can’t get that good defense together forever and some stars and upcoming guys are gonna want paydays or want out. Unless Russ can rebound the future looks bleak.

Plus it’s a crapshoot anyway and most rookies take time so you’re looking at a while before they would be competitive again. Not to mention you’re in Mahomes and Herbert’s division

^^^

Not to mention that the Raiders are a solid team with shit coaching. I believe they set the record for most games lost while leading by double digits in the 2nd half. They could rebound next year to win 12 games and it wouldn't be too shocking if they get the right QB to replace Carr.