The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Shula
JJ
Gase
McDaniel

Wanny had

Zach Thomas
Jason Taylor
Tim Bowens
Ricky Williams
Chris Chambers
Brock Marion
Patrick Surtain
Sam Madison

and others

He managed two appearances and one win with that

He had super talented teams in 2002 and 2003 and did nothing with them.

Shula and JJ are the obvious choices.

Here's every coach since Shula

Shula
JJ
Wanny
Bates*
Saban
Cameron
Sparano
Bowles*
Philbin
Campbell*
Gase
Flores
McDaniel

This is how far you have to reach to keep Wanny off of Mt. Rushmore: you have to put Adam Gase on instead, and throw up McDaniel after one season.  But the real fun will come in seeing who the JJ haters put on the mountain.

My choice is:
Shula
JJ
Wanny
Sparano

This is hard for me.

I would definitely put:
Shula
JJ
McDaniel (winning percentage and vibes)

and then I think you can really make a case for Wanny.

I know it's crazy to have a coach be a Mount Rushmore on both sides of things, but we are where we are.


However, I think I'm gonna go with Sparano.  I just liked the guy.

Including playoffs, McDaniel's win percentage is .500.
Sparano's? .467.
Wanny's? .565.
JJ's?  .550.  With Dan Marino.

There's no logical justification, only bitter resentment.

I would rather have McDaniels be my coach than Wannstedt.

It's silly to only go off of statistics.  The sample size is too small.  Surely, you must understand that.

Also, these guys don't exist in the same environment.

Your opposition and the makeup of the league is different.


Also, I think Wanny had a great team and squandered it.
He got another chance with Chicago and was 16 games under .500.

It's not like Wanny was a great coach and then all of a sudden was a bad coach.  He was probably always somewhat of a retread bum.

What did Jimmy Johnson do with that "great team"?
Again, Wanny inherited a team that just lost Dan Marino and IMPROVED it!  With Jay Fiedler!

It's ok for us to disagree, you know.  You don't have to bludgeon someone with a different sports opinion than you into submission.

JJ built that defense.  He drafted and developed those guys and I give him credit for that.

Look, I just don't think Wanny passed my eye test.  I didn't care for the way he ran a game.  I was constantly frustrated with his (or maybe his GM's decisions not to address certain things, how they drafted, etc.)  It's more that just W/L. 

The truth of it is that I only really think 2 people deserve this honor so far, and I really like McDaniel, so I can add him.

I struggle to add a 4th person because none of them pass, IMO.

I think it just feels like bludgeoning because you're on the wrong end of a particularly difficult side to advocate.   :D

The problem is that you are comparing Wanny not by what he accomplished, but by what your expectations were.  And your (our) expectations were... not reasonable?  Like, the fact that any of us expected the 2000 or 2001 teams to do anything seems comical today.  Those teams had a solid top-10 defense - maybe top-5ish if you squint - but certainly nothing like the '85 Bears or '00 Ravens.  And the offense was just bad; Wanny was never able to replace Marino because replacing Marino is hard (as we have seen over the following 20 years).  There was one year where it seemed like the problems were solved and the team was a legit SB contender, but we got Ray Lucased.

Mostly, my issue is that people have this (what I call) unjustified contempt for JJ & Wanny for their failures to advance further in the playoffs, and it's like... given the two decades that followed them, we should all be well past the point of the "He barely won any playoff games!" standard.

I just don't think the guy is a very good coach.  It isn't all that deeper than that.

1972 Shula
1973 Shula
1984 Shula
1992 Shula

No other coach deserves to be on a Dolphins Mount Rushmore than Don Shula.  Sorry.

I disagree as I think JJ was pretty important tot he organization as well. Jimmy drafted 2 Dolphins who went on to become HOFers. That should be enough on itself but the team he built and turned over to Wanny was pretty good. 

Sure and I agree, but Shula's teams played in 5 Super Bowls, won 2 of them, Made the playoffs 16 times in 26 seasons (61.5%), and won 66% of its games in that span.
Jimmy Johnson in 4 seasons, won exactly two playoff games, never won the division, won 56% of his games, and handed the reins to arguably one of the worst coaches in team history on his way out the door.  Sure, he drafted 2 hall of famers... Shula drafted one of the best QB's in league history.

I dunno, Jimmy Johnson is fine - I don't hate him.  But I don't think he holds a candle to Don Shula.  Maybe they could carve a small bust of Jimmy over on the side, next to 1992 Don Shula's left ear.

That coach, without a HOF QB under center, had a better record with the Dolphins than JJ did... and actually won the division to boot.

The Wanny hatred is bizarre.  You all sound like Bengals fans who think Marvin Lewis is one of the worst coaches in Cincinnati history.  We have had 20 years to see what REAL "bad coaches" look like.

I reckon that will do for me too.

Wanny actually had a decent QB who could make things happen with his legs, something that JJ didn't have.  JJ had an aging QB whose best years were behind him and was so stubborn about running the offense his way that he choked the life out of it.   Wanny inherited a top tier defense from JJ and ran it into the ground.   And that wasn't the first time. 

Thanks, I was racking my brain the other day to remember Marvin Lewis's name...

My opinion on Dave Wannstedt is based on my experience of watching him.  I didn't like his offensive game plan:
Run Ricky left
Run Ricky right
Incomplete Pass
Punt

He destroyed the best RB in the league and did nothing else.  Tried 10 different retread QB's and ended up that Jay Fiedler was better than all of them.  I just think that Wannstedt was handed one of the best defenses in team history and squandered it.  That team COULD have been a contender, if they had better leadership.

Of all the takes I expected to see on Dave Wannstedt, "Jay Fiedler was a better option than late-'90s Dan Marino" was not one of them.

Marino vs. Fiedler is a weird one.

Marino was asked to do a lot and by the end, the game had passed him by.  He got old pretty fast.  All these guys do.  Peyton Manning won a Super Bowl when he was washed, though, so you can work around it.

Fiedler was a game manager type.  He also kinda got figured out.  He couldn't throw the short out.  He had some gutsy wins and could create with his feet a little bit in ways that Marino couldn't.  Fiedler was what he was, but I was a little frustrated that we never truly addressed a long-term Marino replacement for a long time.....I'd say the first real shot at it was Tannehill.

You are describing 2002 and 2003.  How did you feel about his offensive gameplan in 2000 (when MIA won the division) and 2001 (when MIA made the playoffs)?

1) Wannstedt also inherited one of the worst offenses in team history and won the division with it.  I challenge you to go look at the offensive talent on that 2000 squad.
2) I think we (as Dolphin fans) overrate those defenses.  They were definitely better than the defenses Marino suffered with in the Shula years, but they were not dominant or anything close.  They were a top 5-10 defense, but we can all think of some very prominent defensive collapses during that era; the 2002 season was famously ended by a defensive implosion.

This is certainly debatable but a common thought at the time was that the offense could NEVER do ANYTHING and would just go 3 and out for the entire 4th quarter to where the defense eventually got gassed.  I don't know how true that is, but really all Wanny did was run clock, offensively.

My recollection of the defenses of that era is that they were break-but-don't-bend.
Like, they would look absolutely unbeatable, and then be completely unable to get a stop; it was either a 3-and-out, or the opponent would drive the length of the field and score.

You'd be better off to just make it an all around Miami Mt Rushmore. Shula, Johnson for both the Dolphins and the Canes, Pat Riley, and Erik Spoelstra from the Heat. Honestly no one close to them at this point if you ask me.

I'd hate to say this but he was.   Put Fiedler on JJ's 98 and 99 teams and he would've made things happen.

Not even the guy that took the Florida Panthers to the cup finals in year 1?  I mean, I don't think you punt Riley, Spo or Shula for him, but if it continues, you can make a case to punt Jimmy for Paul Maurice...

Nope. Not off of one year in my opinion. The other 4 are proven over the long haul. I have high hopes for McDaniel's too but he has to build a resume.

That team was a bunch of blue collar players who were never expected to get farther than the second round of the playoffs.  They overachieved in 1996, then got destroyed when they ran into an ultra talented team like the Avalanche.   They then caved to the pressure the following year.

2000 was in no small part due to the emergence of Lamar Smith, who had a career year and solved the running woes Miami had had for so long, if just for one year.

People's dislike for Wannestedt isn't based on 2000 or 2001, but 2002 and 2003.

Those were two teams loaded with talent and pro-bowlers and he failed to make the playoffs with either of them. 

Switching Flores for McDaniel in mine.

He ended the evil empire

Also, he is better than McDaniel

I absolutely hate the saying "we never addressed..." It was addressed and you just don't like the way it was addressed.

OK.  I mean, that's semantics, but sure.

IMO, we didn't have a franchise quarterback.  We addressed it by deciding we didn't need one.  Jay Fiedler remained our QB for 5 seasons and couldn't throw a 5 yard out.

That was failure to attempt to address a key need, IMO.


I'll have to go back and make sure, but I think there was a 13 year gap between Marino's last year and us spending a first round pick on a QB.

If I recall correctly, we spend three second round picks on QBs during that time frame.   AJ Feely, John Beck, and Chad Henne.   

It’s not a Rushmore it’s a statue with Shula only.