The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

On one hand they say he's our guy but yet they aren't close to offering market value for him? Rumors are they aren't even close. Either he is your guy or he needs to prove himself further. I'm not sure why they have said that but screwing with his psyche didn't work too well in the past.

https://phinphanatic.com/posts/dolphins-fully-sending-mixed-signals-qb-tua-tagovailoa-his-contract-01j1a99n38b4


If the recent report from Jeff Darlington on ESPN is accurate, the Miami Dolphins might have some explaining to do. According to Darlington, the Dolphins are not offering Tua Tagovailoa the same money given to Jared Goff and Trevor Lawrence.

Darlington said that he is "scaling back" on his optimism that a deal will get done, but if this report that Miami is not offering as much is true, we need to rethink what the Dolphins think about their franchise quarterback. In fact, should we consider No. 1 to be the unquestionable quarterback of the future?

Chris Grier has made it clear to the media that Tagovailoa is a priority and that they see him in Miami for the long-term future of the team. Now, we have to question that because if we look at this honestly, his negotiations are saying something completely different. His negotiations are saying, "We like you, just not that much."

Darlington won't say what is being offered to Tagovailoa, but he clarifies that by saying he simply doesn't know. The reality is if Miami is offering below what Goff and Lawrence received, maybe Grier should have been more direct with the situation and gotten a deal done before the other QBs did.

Grier has done this before. He has waited on extensions or stuck to his guns with a specific number and as a result, he lost players. He wouldn't budge on the Christian Wilkins contract and that led to Wilkins leaving. He did the same with Robert Hunt. This year he waited too long on Jaylen Waddle's extension and ended up paying more than he needed to."

isn't this just a complete contradiction of itself in one paragraph?

"Market Value" seems to be paying a guy an amount very close to what the last position player got, if not more, which I don't agree with.  There's always a team(s) that overpays a guy because they NEED that player to satisfy the fans, or because the GM is an idiot.  I don't think the Dolphins are sending mixed signals; they want him to stay but they don't think he's worth being paid Top 3 QB money, and he's not worth it (as of now).  Miami has a LOT of offensive weapons, if Tua wants to leave for a bigger contract after this year then I say let him go; and I bet it will be the last big contract he signs because he'll go to a weaker team and suck.

I really don't like the idea of players pushing for new contracts when they are still on a guaranteed money contract, if not on a guaranteed money contract then I think they should push for a new contract.  Example, Tyreek got his market value contract, and now wants a new contract while he still has a couple guaranteed seasons left.  If that's the way it's going to be then every player should have a one year contract.

As I think about it, since Tua is set to earn $23M this year, I would be for keeping the base at $23M but adding up to $17M in various incentives.  This would bring his total earnings to $40M if he earned all the incentives.  They could be spread out amongst total passing yards, TD's thrown, playing in all 17 games (or maybe at least 15), winning the division, winning a playoff game, winning the conference, winning the Super Bowl.  If he meets all the metrics then not only will he get paid top dollar, but he will have also put himself in place to get paid the highest salary of any NFL player.

every time a QB gets an extension, he becomes the highest paid player in the league.  At some point you have to be realistic and end this trend.  Tua is a good player, he's our QB, but let's call it like it is, he's not the best QB in the league.  He's probably not top 5, maybe top 10.  But I'm sure his agent is pushing for top 1 or 2 money.  We simply can't afford that, and shouldn't.  It doesn't make sense.

Why would this trend end when it gets to your favorite team?

Neither were Trevor Lawrence, Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert, Lamar Jackson, Jalen Hurts, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Deshaun Watson, or Kirk Cousins, yet they all signed deals making them the highest-paid QB in the league at the time they put pen to paper.

QB pay has increased dramatically AS A PERCENTAGE of salary cap.  This is unsustainable.  At some point a team is going to decide they are better off with a second tier QB and more money spent on the rest of the team.

No particular reason, it should have ended before Trevor Lawrence broke the bank for his mediocre play.

So you're in favor of "upping the ante" every time a player is up for contract talks?  Don't you think it SHOULD BE pay for performance?  i.e. the 5th best player (by whatever undetermined metric the parties can agree upon) should be the 5th highest paid player.  The players have the upper hand in negotiations because a good QB is so hard to find that when you have one, its up to the team to bend over backwards to keep him.  But that doesn't mean that, in the QB market, you should pay them whatever they want, rather than what they DESERVE.

The problem is the bar has changed dramatically since the end of last season. Apparently the Dolphins are stuck on what it was prior to when Goff and Lawrence got paid. Not sure how it's going to help long term because Jordon Love and Dak Prescott are going to reset the bar again and probably pretty soon. The longer this goes the more it is going to cost the Dolphins.

One of Grier's major flaws is he doesn't get contracts done on our draft picks early enough and that's why he can't afford them in the end. See Christian Wilkins and Robert hunt as examples. Fortunately he did re-sign Waddle but we have 2 more waiting in Jaylan Phillips and Jevon Holland.

Don't be too sure about Dak. There's plenty of talk in Dallas of letting him walk when his contract is up. He's a lot like Tua in some regards. Great in the regular season, hasn't done anything in the post season (comparitively speaking) to warrant a big contract. He's at least won 2 wild card games but he's been to the playoffs 5 times and never made it further than the divisional round. There's a lot of folks in Dallas that don't think he's worth the money they are paying him.

I don't believe they will dump him until you find something as good or better. The guy is getting them there and it would suck to have to start all over just because.

Yes.  The salary cap goes up every year; why would the biggest contracts remain stagnant?

This could only work if every player signed a new "contract" every year.

For example, Mahomes signed a 10-year $450M contract in 2020. Does that mean that no QB should be allowed to make more than $45M/year until 2030?  What about Matt Stafford after he won the Super Bowl, or Lamar after he won MVP?  Furthermore, if it's really "pay for performance," does that mean Brock Purdy should have a top-three contract in the league right now?

Somehow, despite all this "Tua doesn't deserve to be paid that much" talk, I haven't heard any of those same voices saying that MIA should rip up Tyreek's contract and give him more money because he "deserves" to remain the highest paid WR in the league based on performance.

The perception (and problem) with Tua, right or wrong, is that he performs well when everything is going great with the offense. When it isn't going well offensively, he throws picks and can't elevate the team beyond the system. Like it or not, Tua was very middle of the road with Flores and is playing really well with McDaniel, and that further reenforces that the delta here is the coach and system, and not the QB. So why pay top dollar for a middle of the road player inflated by the system?

In that context, is he worth a top 10 salary? I'm sure he and his agent will say so. But the proof will be when he either gets an extension from the dolphins, or plays out his contract and gets a big free agent deal somewhere else.

On a semi-related tangent, does Brock Purdy get a top 5 QB contract from the 49ers ?

When Tua had some of the worst offensive talent in the league (including one of the literal worst offensive lines of all time) and a middling defense, he was still able to post a winning record every year.  When he was given weapons, he immediately led the league in passer rating and then passing yards, en route to the #1 offense in the league.  And we saw exactly what this system and these weapons looked like when Tua was out: hot garbage.  Adam Gase-ish.

But none of that even matters.  In a league where Kirk Cousins and Kyler Murray and Justin Herbert all sign top-dollar contracts, what is the argument for why Tua should take less?

Looks like the Dolphins are trying really hard to repeat the mistakes they made with Drew Brees, but somehow even worse this time.

A big part of the mixed signals may be because despite our best intentions, we are basically capped out and don't have the money. We extended the credit card signing up all these other guys on fat contracts while Tua (and a few others) were still on their rookie deals, and whoops, it's all gotta be paid.

This offseason we saw the start of the exodus (and it was a massive start). We're already projected to be almost $16M over the cap in 2025 as of how things stand right now. There will be some relief if Armstead retires as expected, but that will probably just get us closer to break even. After that, we gotta to start to be prepared to lose names to hand out any new contracts, and big names at that.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if we make Tua play out his final year of his rookie deal, and then franchise him if we plan to keep guys like Tyreek, Chubb and Ramsay on the roster beyond 2024. Even then we may lose Holland and possibly Phillips. After that, all these veterans we signed to plug the gaps this year will either be ready for retirement or have their hands out again for more money.

The day we sign any kind of deal for Tua for anything like what he wants, then Tyreek and Co are instantly unaffordable. You can say the cap can be manipulated and high salaries are BS... until the day they're not, and you can't get around it despite all the possible changes you think up. We already found that out this offseason, and it ain't over yet.

If I was Tua and they don't re-sign me I would sit out just like Lamar did. He only has to play 6 games to be eligible for the season credit so he's got time. He is only guaranteed 23 million and will make that back when he gets a new contract. he has to worry about a career ending injury.  I think Lawrence was guaranteed almost 142 million. Considering Tua's health history guaranteed money is more important than what he would lose by holding out half the season. It isn't like he is broke. Besides, it seems like Mike White and Skyler are trying to get him paid since they are continuing to struggle.

Keep in mind the only reason that White and Skyler are the backups is because of Tua. If you lose Tua you bring in someone a lot more accomplished than Mike White or Skyler. I don't know who that would be (perhaps Dak?) but it could happen and it wouldn't be the worst thing to happen in my opinion. I'm not saying that a long term contract for Tua will kill us either, it won't but I'm not convinced it's in our best interests either.

I got a feeling once the season gets closer both sides will work out a deal. Neither side wants to go into this season without having a QB for the future. It's just a matter of putting a dollar amount on that. Tua's injury history is as much of a problem for Tua as it is for Miami.

I saw a bar chart in regards to teams and starting QBs since 2000. Cleveland leads the league but Miami and Dallas aren't far behind. I would think the fear of resorting to back to what we were prior to Tua would be motivation enough to sign him. Maybe something comes along as a better option but nothing out there right now. Maybe Tannehill a few years ago. You need a happy QB and receivers or this offense will struggle.

White is a complete and utter waste of cap space. WTF did we do that for?

Plus the Miami salary cap squeeze (no it's not BS, it is an actual thing we have to deal with)

My prediction: Tua's injury history will be an excuse to make us stretch out his rookie deal to the end of the season. This year is literally boom or bust: all the casino chips are in.

Then the crunch will come. Tua will be franchised for a season, or Tyreek (and a few other big names) will be cut to pay market rates for his extension. By then either Tua has proven himself, or the following bust could be a complete implosion.

Ross wants a Championship, and he wants it right now. Two years time (maybe even one years time) he's probably not gonna be around to dwell over the mess. Neither will a lot of other guys. This year will either be glory or the start of a massive train wreck. Get used to the idea, it will hurt a lot less when it happens.

Because Tua is 1 concussion away from not playing and you have to have 2 healthy QB's at all times that know McDaniels system. You can't just bring in a guy from the street for a couple weeks and hope he doesn't play. You have to have 2 guys as Tua's backup at ALL times. That's just the reality of it.

Skylar was more than capable as a #2. He was a #3 behind Tua and Teddy the previous season, dumped in at the last second did a hell of a lot better than Teddy as a third string with basically no reps. He played the last game of the season with everything to lose on a strict "don't fuck up" regime, and was pretty decent in the playoff game. That should have earned him then #2 spot last season. Plus he's on a rookie 7th round pick contract... and then we go and pay millions to Mike White who is no better (arguably worse).

It's a total waste of money. As soon as Teddy was gone, you commit to Skylar as #2, and if Tua gets hurt you grab another guy off the street (or preferably better) as Skylar's backup. White was a horrible choice. End of story.

Sorry, but Skylar was bad.  Teddy definitely played better.

In the last game of the season, he was 20/31 for 152yds, 0TD, 0INT with a passer rating of 76.3 (against a 7-10 Jets team).
In the playoff game, he was 18/45 for 220yds, 1TD, 2INT with a passer rating of 44.7.

This is with the same amazing offensive weapons that everyone uses to dismiss Tua's stats.

The problem is no one gets a "top 5 contract" - everyone gets a "top 1" contract.  EVERYONE.  the bar just keeps going up and up because no one wants to re-tool at QB.

So yes, Brock Purdy, when he is up for renewal, will be the highest paid player in nfl history.

Yes, and this includes all your competition.  So what's the problem?

The only thing that matters is that everyone else is forced to pay the same big QB contracts as you.  That's parity.

Until a franchise says no, and pulls a moneyball, re-puposes all that QB money into WR, DE, CB and everywhere else, and relies on rookie contract QBs for a sustained run of success.

the NFL of all leagues is one where sometimes if everyone is zigging, someone is going to zag and win

Both Waddle and Hill had some big drops in this game and yet we only lost by 3. This was a game we should have stolen.

If there was someone who could figure out how to win consistently with mediocre QBs, they would already be emperor of the league.

The best case scenario for rookie QB success is that you find a good one and keep him, not that you find good ones and then let them walk so you can keep drafting QBs perpetually.

Off the top of my head I can't think of the name of another player on the Cardinals or Chargers, Murray and Herbert are the face of those teams and it is a big part of why they are getting paid.  Kirk Cousins has at least had some success in the league.  Tua deserves more than the $23M he's due to get, but it's not $55M a year money; more like $40M.

So Murray and Herbert deserved to get paid not for personal performance or wins, but because they were "the face of the team"?  Tua is the first Dolphins QB to make the Pro Bowl in over a quarter-century.  The Dolphins should be desperately trying to establish him as the face of the team... unless you think they would prefer to have Tyreek Hill representing the franchise?

At the time Kirk Cousins signed his league-leading deal, he had a cumulative record of 26-30-1, going 0-1 in his only playoff appearance.  (Tua's record: 32-19, 0-1 playoffs.)  Whatever "success" you might have attributed to Cousins, Tua has had more.

Yes, that's correct.  Have to put butts in the seats to sell the over priced concessions.

So make Tua "the face of the team" and you can pay him whatever he asks.  Problem solved.
If Kyler Murray can be the face of a team, there's no reason Tua can't be.

Tua is the face of the team. Few people move the media needle like he does ... good or bad.

The only thing is, no one moves people on the field like Tyreek Hill does.

Our whole offense functions (and the way opposing defenses react) due to Hill's positioning, motion, skills and scoring threat. This has been dissected over and over the last two years - and the conclusion is it all starts with Hill. Our only All-Pro player.

As much as I love Tua and see him as the Franchise QB - the rest of the football media, and every other team sees it like this. Until this changes, he ain't the face of the team.

I actually like Skylar too, but he really doesn't fit this offense in my opinion. He's not the same type of QB that Tua is. White actually does fit in the mold of Tua but he's no where near as good. That's another reason that I don't think the Dolphins feel comfortable with just Skylar backing up Tua. If Tua goes down for a game, I think they would rather start White and not make any changes to the offense, but if Tua is going to be out for an extended period, I think they would actually prefer to start Skylar and make a few tweaks to the offense to fit his skillset.

When the Dolphins play a game on TV, and just one player is shown on the main graphic, it ain't Tyreek Hill.

Does Tua being a lefty affect the offense, so that a RH QB that comes in throws off the play calling, etc.??  Any time a backup QB comes in it affects timing, blocking, etc.; with Tua being a lefty it just seems it would throw another adjustment in.

I remember the 49ers teams of the '90s with Steve Young (another lefty).  There was a constant QB controversy (at least, in the local media) with Young, Steve Bono, and Elvis Grbac, but I don't think catching left-handed vs. right-handed passes was ever an issue.