The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

McDaniel was just extended so who knows, but no matter how this year finishes coach deserves at a minimum one more year. I think 2. If he can’t make a deep run in 5 then fire him but this never ending coaching carousel has to end.

I would have been fine if Flores stayed after his late season run too fwiw

I don’t have it in me anymore to seriously follow this team if McD gets axed this year, I don’t have it in me for another coaching change and rebuild.

Fire Grier if we suck this year but McD in my book deserves and has earned some more time.

Can you imagine if we had Herbert or Burrow in this system with our players?

When Tua is there he has mostly done good for us. We probably win a playoff game with him the year before last! We probably win this game against Seattle if he slides instead of dives.

It's hard to take McDaniel seriously if he gives up when Tua is hurt.

Pulling Hill and Waddle out of the Bills game was gutless.

The team preparation and play-calling for the Seattle game was nothing short of pathetic.

Someone should tell Wonderboy this isn't a frickin Playstation game when you can hit reset when you don't like how things are going.

If Hill and Waddle slack off, he should have his foot firmly up their asses saying they are being paid top dollar to be top receivers, no matter who the QB is.

He's got to toughen up and work harder and have the team ready at moments of adversity like this, or else he's not fit to be an NFL coach.

The honeymoon period just ended. If he doesn't give a shit about how the team responds, why should we? 

The problem with McDaniel will always be that the way in which a team takes on the personality of its coach is by essentially "prescribing" the kinds of players who are likely to rise to the status of leaders among their teammates.  NFL players don't respond to their coaches anywhere near as much as they respond to each other and the established team leaders among them.  However, if the established player leaders are the ones "prescribed" by the head coach's personality -- in this case ones who are fun and games comedians but can't bear down and rise to the occasion in the face of adversity -- well then that's the shape your locker room and your team culture will take.

For McDaniel to be successful the team would have to acquire players of the Ray Lewis ilk to lead the team -- highly established leaders who are well-known for their tough, no-nonsense approach -- and who essentially whisk McDaniel and his personality aside and lead the team with their own approach.  McDaniel's personality would have to be rendered a non-sequitur in determining the personality of the team, and that's the only way that can happen.  Unfortunately that's unlikely, however.

I want to keep McDaniel forever.  I like him.  I think that blaming him is short-sided.

When you lose your franchise QB, that's kind of it.  You can't scheme around that.  So, sure, learn, do better -- whatever.  But this is a kind of coach I'd like to have for a long time.

There are plenty of teams that can win games after losing their QB. I know of one team that had a perfect season.

That was over 50 years ago.  The game has changed.  The salary cap keep things different.  It's just apples to oranges.  Sometimes you get lucky and have the next Tom Brady on the bench, but by and large, if you have a big name QB and they go down, you aren't in contention anymore.

Nick Foles is pretty recent.   

It's a good example.

Thompson just isn't very good.

It’s a good example but it was still very much a fluke

There have been lots of examples in NFL history where a QB has gone down injured and the rest of the team stepped up with extra effort to compensate.  There is a concept called "social loafing" and it's the opposite of that.  However, you have to have a team culture that inspires that kind of response, and I don't think this team has it.

It's a good example, and the Eagles paid Foles top dollar to be their backup for a few years - because they knew exactly what they were getting, and could afford to do it.

They weren't anywhere near as over-extended as we are now by having a huge amount of our salary cap tied up in less than 10 players (a number who aren't even playing).

What's happening with us is self-inflicted: everything is tied up in Tua, and anything else is an afterthought. It doesn't matter if it's Thompson, Boyle, Huntley, White, or anyone else we can drag off the practice squad or off the street (because that's all we can afford), if these guys aren't getting reps with the starting players they're already way behind the 8-ball when they hit the field.

It's not as bad as when Curtis Painter came on for the Colts after Manning went down with virtually no reps at all, but it's well down the same path.

Exactly. Hostetler with the Giants, Reich with the Bills, Dilfer with the Ravens, even Brady when he came on that first season... those teams rallied to greatness.

McDaniel pulling both Hill and Waddle during the Bills game when Tua went out, and their follow up efforts last week is the exact opposite.

Thompson hasn't played well, but even you Dave pointed out he has virtually no help. There are no excuses for this - it's just not good enough.

Sure, Osweiler stepping up in Denver when a shell of himself Manning went down ( Manning came back and managed to pull it off ) and of course when Griese was injured in 72…but most are backups doing enough to keep the team competitive until the starter comes back, and most that have done something similar id say had very good defenses to compensate.

You might be right about the culture, I know you don’t like McDaniel. All we can do is wait and see.

There are far, far more examples of a Pro Bowl QB going down and the team collapsing.  The 16-0 Patriots, with one of the most dominant offensive teams of all time and one of the best head coaches of all time, were not able to make the playoffs after losing their starting QB the next year.

The teams that have been able to survive losing their starting QB have generally had dominant defenses.  These Dolphins are far from that.

They could afford to do it because Wentz was still on a rookie deal.

This is not a unique or unusual circumstance.  We have multiple recent examples of what happened to teams when their big-money starting QB is knocked out for a big chunk of the season; be it Matt Stafford, Kirk Cousins, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Burrow, or Justin Herbert.  

Your choices are to keep drafting rookie QBs or to pay the one you have.  But if you're not going to pay a QB, what sense does it make to pay any top player at all?  Why would you pay big bucks for Tyreek Hill or Jalen Ramsey if you're not going to pay big bucks for a QB?  You might as well just run a perpetual team of rookie contracts and bargain castoffs.

Furthermore, as we saw in 2022, having a QB on a rookie contract doesn't necessarily fix this.  MIA was aggressive in getting one of the more well-regarded backups in Teddy Bridgewater - Sean Payton claimed he should have been the starter - and when MIA's rookie-scale QB went down, the offense still imploded anyway.  The only insurance for surviving the loss of your starting QB is "Build your team around the defense."  And it's not like MIA has been stingy with the pocketbook on that side of the ball!

never heard of going 11-5 refereed to as "collapsing" before but okay.   

there is a difference between decline and giving up.  The 2008 Patriots didn't give up.  If the Dolphin's do then you should not just be looking for a new QB this off season but a new head coach. 

That's all good in theory, until our big bucks guys in Hill and Ramsey give up because they don't give a shit. It all falls to pieces after that... seriously if they stop caring and putting in, why are they being paid the massive $$$?

This week is going to say a lot about this team. Is it a bunch of mercenaries after the $$$ and looking after themselves, with a bunch of misfits lobbed into the mix, or something else? Like a real team.

McDaniel has to get off the high quality weed and put up or shut up right now. I'm not buying his brand of bullshit like many of you.

If we manage to drop this week at home (no matter who is under center) against the Titans, then:

(https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-000415383099-1kf5n4-t500x500.jpg)

NE went from "an undefeated regular season and the greatest offense in the history of the sport" to "losing their playoff spot to a team that finished with 1 win the previous year," taking a humiliating blowout home loss to that same team in the process.  That's a collapse.

If MIA goes from 11-6 last year to 6-11 this year (i.e. 5 games worse), you and everyone else will definitely call it a "collapse."  So keep that same energy.

What did the elite players on LAR (including, um, Jalen Ramsey) do when Stafford went down?  How about on CIN when Burrow went down, or on MIN when Cousins went down, or on LAC when Herbert went down?

Y'all expect Miami to somehow be exempt from the same conditions that apply to everyone else.

Whatever one may believe about Tua's fitness as a franchise QB, the last three years have made it crystal clear that this team has no chance to even be competitive without Tua under center; the idea of even making the playoffs is hopeless.  So if your intent is to evaluate the worthiness of the front office with Skylar Thompson as the starter, I don't know why you even need to watch this game to do so: Skylar has already put more than enough on tape to make that decision.

One more thing:

There was a LOT of criticism (not necessarily from you) directed at McDaniel when Bradley Chubb got injured in garbage time of a blowout loss.  Personally, I'm of the belief that in a hopeless blowout, starting defense stays in (you can't just let them score every drive) but your star offensive players should come out.  But it seems that you believe that all the stars should stay on the field until the clock hits triple zero?

If we scored on the drive where Tua gets hurt I bet they stay in. It was out of reach and people want it both ways, if they stayed in and Hill blew out his Achilles everyone would say he should have pulled it. It’s damned if to do damned if you don’t in football.

Look, maybe McDaniel isn’t a great coach and won’t cut but clearly some people just have an issue with his demeanor and that he treats his players like humans.

Don Shula didn’t let the players have water breaks in practice for years, that’s psychotic and I’m glad that’s not acceptable anymore.

Our society, and particularly the segment of society that watches football, is largely of the belief that the worse you treat your players, the "tougher" it makes them, which leads to better results. Hell, it's the foundational belief of every coach from the Belichick tree!  One would think that the complete and total failure of their collective head coaching careers would be some sort of indication as to the flaws of this approach.

It's funny, though: I don't hear any of this talk about Dan Campbell out in Detroit, for some reason.  I'm sure it must be that, despite outward appearances, Campbell is actually much sterner with his players than McDaniel, and he has created an unspoken foundation of accountability that doesn't exist in Miami.  It's certainly not that the Lions simply won more games than the Dolphins and we're backsplaining it; no, it's definitely a difference in culture.  It's the same way we know Kansas City has the best "culture" in the league: they keep winning titles.  (Maybe Miami should poach a team captain from them!)

This is why the team probably performed so well in clutch games under stern, no-nonsense head coach Brian Flores.   The defense, in particular, must have been amazing in those games.

I'm fine with McDaniel being head coach; although I'm getting sick of him sinking lower and lower into a stoner character.  But what I can't abide is his miserable offensive play calling, IT SUCKS and has sucked since the beginning.

Defenses have figured out his offense. It hasn't looked good in 6 or 7 games now and that includes when Tua has been at QB and he's not changing anything. He's just throwing the same shit out there that worked great the first 6 weeks of last year, but isn't working anymore. Show me you have something else in your playbook, if not your a joke.

McDaniel is a beta-male like Adam Gase

I am super worried that McDaniels is getting scapegoated here.  I think he's one of the best young coaches in the league and we're on pace to run him out on a rail.

We were the best offense in the league not long ago and we looked pretty good offensively in week 1.

We are now on our 3rd QB -- on top of that, McDaniels has been calling plays that are frustrating, but they've opened up the big play opportunities and the guys haven't capitalized.  He ran Hill for a bunch of small plays, but eventually got him open down the sideline left that was dropped and deep down the right side, which was underrun/overthrown.

Waddle dropped an easy catch for more than 10 yards and then McDaniel got booed for calling a dump off on 3rd and 10.  ...but he called the play to extend the drive and the players didn't execute for him.

We need to improve some things, chief among them for me is the ability to run North/South for 1-3 yards reliably.

If it's true that a team takes on the personality of its coach, then a team coached by McDaniel won't have a personality consistent with winning at a high level in the game of professional football.  If the game were pickleball or cornhole that might work, but not professional football.

It's entirely possible that McDaniel would make a great offensive coordinator and has been promoted to his level of incompetence as a head coach.  That's the norm in the NFL.  For every highly successful head coach there are a great many more who were promoted to their level of incompetence in that capacity.  Brian Flores is doing a great job right now as the Vikings' defensive coordinator.  A great head coach he was not, but he's a great coordinator.

I did too, up till this year. This year has changed my mind and not just since Tua went down. Week 1 we looked about on par with what we looked the last couple of games last year including the playoff game. Week 2 was a disaster. The big plays aren't there anymore, especially against better defenses. Sure we looked unstoppable the first 6 weeks last year and then teams started to adjust to what McDaniel was doing, especially the better defenses and then we looked ordinary or worse. That's not a good trend and I'm not sure we are going to get back to where we were in those first 6 weeks of last year. McDaniel seems to be relying more and more on behind the line of scrimmage stuff and less and less on down the field throws, again even when Tua is in the game. When Tua isn't in the game it looks even worse.

I'm super worried that we have seen the best that McDaniel can produce. He surprised some teams early on but now there's game tape on him and they know what's coming and they know how to stop it. That's when you have to adjust and I don't see those adjustments coming. When you lose your starting QB it shouldn't cause the entire offense to fall apart and it has. A decline I expected, this I couldn't have imagined. He's had a couple weeks now to adjust and it hasn't happened. All the underneath stuff only works if they respect your deep game. The Dolphins haven't connected on a deep pass this year I don't believe. That's very worrying.

And I'm not really calling for him to be fired and even if I was, the Dolphins aren't going to do that, they just gave him a new contract. But I am worried that McDaniel is not everything I once thought he was. He's looking more and more average everyday. He wouldn't be the first coach to take a turn for the worse after getting a big contract. Not saying it's gone to his head, but I do think he needs to figure out a way to turn things around both with and without Tua or he's not going to be around after this year big contract or not.

And I haven't even talked about the defense which looks like dogshit giving up a couple of big plays through the air and the ground every game and only occasionally looking like a real defense. Let's not forget that if we don't get a strip and recovery at the goal line in game 1 we are 0-4. It's looked bad all year, not just in weeks 3 and 4. I thought it was very worrying when our highly respected defensive coordinator left when it looked like Miami was an up and coming team and the defense turned on him. That's not a good sign and it's looking more and more like he saw something that not everyone could see, especially with several of the starters. They might be happy now with their new coach but they aren't getting the results that the last defensive coordinator got even if they weren't as good as we all thought they should be with him. Maybe that had less to do with the defensive coordinator and more to do with the players as he suggested.

I sort of expected the defense to have a bit of a decline, but I never expected what's happened to the offense, with or without Tua. I expected it to be even better than the 1st 6 games of 2023 and maybe that would compensate for the defensive decline a bit, but that hasn't been the case. We are in for a very long season, perhaps 2 or 3.

Dolphins problems extend well beyond their injured quarterbacks (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/dolphins-problems-extend-well-beyond-their-injured-quarterbacks/ar-AA1rxWSS?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=2c9908ea628e47348bac8a0e8f33fec4&ei=13)

The Peter Principle is not unique to the NFL but it is often extremely glaring in the NFL.  There is absolutely nobody I would take over Rex Ryan for defensive coordinator, head coach not so much.

The league nerfed us with the new motion rules.

It's not a new rule. Players were never allowed forward motion at the time of the snap. Somehow Tyreek was getting away with it.

Not new, but the NFL mentioned before the season started they would be monitoring this very closely, and throw the flags a lot more often when they saw something amiss... and specifically referred to us and San Francisco in the process.

Tyreek skipped most of the preseason while waiting on a reworked contract, so perhaps not surprisingly, this is the result.

It's a failure of the players, the coaching (and arguably the management). The team had more than enough notice to be prepared, and should know they would be under the microscope. At this level, there are no excuses, it's sloppy and unprofessional and it just shouldn't happen.

So, has McDaniel come up with something creative and to motivate the team to success in the Patriots game, or has he spent the week hanging out with these guys?

(https://i.imgur.com/9Olipgj.gif)

News flash - we still could have had Tua on a rookie deal for one more season.

We still could have had Waddle on a rookie deal for another two seasons.

We could have left Tyreek to play out his existing contract for at least another season (as well as Ramsey).

It doesn't make sense to complain about overspending and then insist that the team should have delayed paying players.  Waiting means you either a) pay more than you would have locking them up earlier (i.e. making the overspending problem worse) or b) decide the pick was a failure and move on, getting little-to-nothing in return as you start over.

The only thing that is keeping them in a Dolphins uniform right now are their reworked contracts.  Otherwise we'd be sitting through trade talks right now, just as the Raiders are with Adams.

Now, you can argue that the team should trade Tyreek and Ramsey and just blow it all up (which would be consistent with the rest of this thread).  But if that's the case: who cares about the cap?  It won't matter because the team will be tanking anyway.

I was just pointing out that we had the choice of keeping those guys on their existing contracts. We could have done what the Eagles did with Wentz who were still able to afford Foles as a backup. We didn't necessarily have to lose all of the players we did during the off-season.

These are things that Grier had decided (no doubt to please McDaniel) thinking that last year and this year were our chances at a Superbowl run. It's now looking like that thinking has backfired, and we are going to be in an almighty mess for the next few seasons because of it.

That's not a fair comparison, for two reasons:

1) PHI did not even have the option to pay Wentz when Foles was playing there; the CBA doesn't allow extensions or re-negotiations for first-round rookies until after year 3.

2) To the extent that PHI's decision can be compared to MIA, MIA didn't give Tua a new contract until after year 4, whereas PHI gave Wentz a new contract at the earliest opportunity (after year 3).

Has McDaniel lost the team? This game is pathetic, even by previous pathetic games.

Well the running game looked nice. He was known as a run game guy so maybe he’s going back to what he knows best.


Despite my frustrations on Monday night a week ago I’ll never give up on this damn team.

I really like McDaniel and want him to be successful, he grew up
In Colorado and I find him an inspiring guy who is true to himself.

You guys may be right and we will see but I really hope he can turn it around and I can come back and gloat :)

This is a great dolphins fan community and even if the dolphins make me cry again even if not for the team I wouldn’t want to give that up lol

I do like him... but I want to see something more than a 1-D game plan. More than revolves around Tua to Tyreek, and then plan B, and no plan C.