The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Reporting has it that Flores wanted Herbert or Love in the draft that year, both those guys are in the playoffs. For what it’s worth Flores is DC in the NFC North Championship game tonight.

As a side note, I hate Ryan Fitzpatrick. Max Kellerman is right he’s good enough to doom your franchise.

We should have Joe Burrow.

I always wanted Hebert, I'm not sold on Love.

Everyone wanted Joe Burrow, who also isn't in the playoffs this year.  And Herbert wasn't in the playoffs last year.

I think he was right with Herbert I’m iffy on Love too but had we got a stud OLineman and Love who knows

Flores sucks for other reasons including not trying to make Tua work once he was here but he has to feel some vindication these days.

Tua has been near elite for stretches but the number one thing a player needs is to be available.

( I know Burrow has had injury issues to but as a pure passer he is the best QB in the league and it irks me we failed at tanking, for Luck and for Burrow )

Well Herbie had a game as bad as Tua did against the Texans.

Flores was sure as hell wrong about wanting Watson (especially with what it ended up costing the Browns)

After tonights game against the Texans, I can't say I see much that I'd want in Herbert over Tua either.

Oh yeah the Watson thing kind of cancels out if he was right about Herbie or Love.

Herbie had a shit game and so far so is Love.


Unrelated but I think we would have played Buffalo better than Denver did tofsys

I'm not buying this. If Flores wanted Herbert they would have taken Herbert. Flores wanted Tua over Herbert the problem was that he never really trusted Tua which doesn't really surprise me. He probably wouldn't have trusted Herbert if he had him either though. Flores is not an offensive minded coach, he wanted an experienced QB that didn't take unnecessary risks, that's why he liked Fitz. Sure Fitz is a gunslinger, but he's also smart enough not to take unnecessary risks. Tua was a rookie and needed a year or 2 of grooming before he was ready to play in the NFL and Fitz was the right guy to groom Tua. I was completely on board with Fitz playing ahead of Tua. Maybe it took Tua longer to be ready because he didn't play his first year, but based on what I saw, I think playing Tua his rookie year would have been a disaster. He's still not a mature QB in my opinion.

If you are considering health, then yeah -- you take Herbert because he's on the field and isn't at a particularly high risk of losing his career in the next 2 years.

But just on play alone, I think Tua has been the better player, though they are comparable. 

Outside of Miami, I don't think most agree with you. Most of the analysis of QB's that I see have Herbert as the better player up to this point in their careers. Neither is a top 5 QB in the league though. Maybe top 10. Maybe.

Tua seems better on most things that are based on percentages, rather than raw numbers, because Herbert has played almost a season's more games.

But record as a starter, completion %, yards/attempt, QBR....Tua leads in all that stuff.  It's not a blowout, but Tua is better in every single one of those.  Also, just on the eye test, our line is bad and Tua gets better numbers in spite of it.

Availability is important.

Burrow and Tua have missed a similar number of games and I don't think anyone has Herbert over Burrow.

Not all his stats are better. Herbert's interception rate is a lot better than Tua's and all the other stats are fairly close. I think just looking at stats alone you could argue Herbert is better. Just FYI, I don't consider winning percentage an individual stat so I discount that. Not saying everyone should discount it, I'm saying I discount it when comparing the 2 players.

Among career rate stats, Herbert has a better INT % and yards/game, while Tua is better in literally every other rate stat.  You can argue about how close it is, but Herbert is worse.  So you have to value INT % pretty highly to even try to make the argument that Herbert is better on stats.

this is the last argument of the Tua haters.
"oh he's injured ALL THE TIME"
Tua has proven to be a good QB, and yes he missed games this year, and the Dolphins paid for it.

Haters gonna hate all the time.  When Tua played 17 games and topped the stat categories, it was "Tyreek made him."  Dude can't get any respect.  Now Tua missed time and Tyreek didn't even get 1000 yards.  But tell me again that Tyreek made Tua. ::)

Whether Flores was right remains to be seen.   But the way he went about it, casting himself as a victim of systematic racism was definitely wrong.

I've supported Tua the whole time but after this past season I have to agree with the injury frustration. Both injuries could have been avoided. He is a very good QB and does things others can't but out of his 3 seasons he didn't finish in 2 of them. He's obviously more fragile than the average QB.

I feel similarly about Armstead. He's fantastic but only here 2/3rds of the time and doesn't practice. Overall that isn't good for the team.

The only criticism I really have about Tua is that dude absolutely refuses to protect himself.

I can't remember Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, or Mahomes EVER missing games because they chose not to slide.  Yet this happened twice to Tua this year alone.  It doesn't matter how much you invest in your OL if your QB is continually trying to truck defenders.

The difference in INT rate is pretty significant though whereas all the other differences are pretty small. You don't have to value INT rate highly, you just have to rate it approximately equal value to the other stats to make the argument that Herbert is the better QB in my humble opinion. Either those that rate Herbert the better QB think the difference in INT % is significant enough to make him the better QB or they aren't looking at stats alone which is my guess.

Yes, which is literally the first thing I said.

But if you discount that, in terms of the actual play, I think Tua has had the better career thus far.