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Title: Enough already Post by: Thundergod on January 13, 2006, 05:43:51 pm The Lincoln Journal-Star in Nebraska has become the latest of a small group of newspapers to stop using the term "Redskins."
"Readers of the sports pages may notice a change in the newspaper's style beginning today: We have stopped using the nickname "Redskins" to refer to the professional football team of the nation's capital," writes editor Kathleen Rutledge. "When we're reporting on that team, we'll call it Washington. "We also have stopped printing logos for professional and college sports teams that use Native symbols -- ones that ado pt imagery such as an arrowhead and ones that caricature Native culture. The Chief Wahoo logo of the Cleveland Indians, which we stopped using last summer, is an example of rank caricature. Instead, we'll use alternative logos that stay away from Native symbols. "Finally, we've decided to drop the stereotypical modifier 'Fighting' when used with team nicknames such as Fighting Sioux or Fighting Illini. "We've made this decision out of respect for Native people. Plain and simple." Two newspapers -- The Star Tribune in Minneapolis and The Oregonian in Portland, Ore., have banned the use of all Native American-related nicknames. In 2001, the Portland Press Herald in Maine and the Salt Lake Tribune banned the word "Redskins," according to Cox News Service. This has been a subject that has irritated me to no end EVERY SINGLE TIME I hear of it. I am absolutely sick and tired of people being too PC for everyone else's good. I know I'm in the minority here and to tell you the truth I could care less since 90% of the population are all saints.  I believe we as a people can put our energy to better use by doing more productive things to contribute to society than to think about how to not make someone feel bad. Let's figure, shall we, that these teams were named with no intention but to just name a team. I understand that "Redskins" is an offensive term to most people and read what it actually refers to,  but I did a little research and found this: The name "Redskins" would later be be used for a NFL football team. The team was originally known as the Boston Braves, but changed to the Boston Redskins when they left Braves field for Fenway Park. The name "Redskins" was chosen to honor the team's coach, William "Lone Star" Weitz, whose mother was Sioux. In 1937 the team moved to Washington, D.C. and became the Washington Redskins The point that I'm trying to make is that the intentions for the most part are not to offend, but people today have become waaaay too sensitive.  Why is it that all of a sudden this is a problem? Never heard anything about it back in the 80's and never read anything about it happening in the 70's. What's next,  not naming teams after fierce animals because PETA deems them misunderstood,  and that the animal's intention is to survive and not be "mean".  It's happening already as teams are constantly changing their mascot names for PC reasons EG:  Syracuse,  Washington "Bullets" etc. No one has a problem with the Yankees,  and to tell you the truth,  I'd be amused (since I'm Puerto Rican) if I ever saw a team named the New York Puerto Ricans or Boriquas.  Offended... no. No wonder team names these days are unimaginative and lame.  Whatever, Happy non-denominational day to you! P.S.  sorry for the rant  :-X Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Philly Fin Fan on January 13, 2006, 06:33:30 pm Quote "Finally, we've decided to drop the stereotypical modifier 'Fighting' when used with team nicknames such as Fighting Sioux or Fighting Illini. I guess they will drop the "Fighting" from the Irish as well? If not, some Irish guy should sue the newspaper! Title: Re: Enough already Post by: JVides on January 13, 2006, 06:56:44 pm This proves my long-standing theory:
"People, by and large, suck." I hate this P.C. time we live in, where people confuse being insulted with being assaulted. They're two different things, people. Who among us can ever expect to lead a life in which he or she will never feel insulted in some way? Is that where we're headed? Although I can understand the "Redskins" beef, I find it ridiculous that a team named "Seminoles", or "Fighting Sioux", is offensive. It's a name relating to a regional group of people. Is that so wrong? Should the 49ers change their names because it reminds us of all the Chinese slave-like labor that occurred during the California Gold Rush? After all, the California gold rush was not a banner time in the history of the U.S.; lawlessness, treatment of people tantamount to slavery...(Not picking on your team there, Sunstroke, this was just the first example that crept into my mind.) Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Philly Fin Fan on January 13, 2006, 08:13:40 pm I agree JVides. Thats why I brought up Notre Dame. When Colin Quinn had his show on Comedy Central, they covered this topic once, and he jokingly stated that Fighting Irish brings to mind that all Irish people are drunks who fight.
Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Brian Fein on January 14, 2006, 06:32:07 am Thundergod, I don't think you are in the minority. There are too many people sitting around conference room tables these days trying to decide what's "right", what's "wrong" and what's "offensive". Look at the Detroit Pistons Dancers' Calendar thread - same type of thing.
Would I be offended if there was suddenly a team called the Cleveland White Guys? Probably not. Has anyone asked anyone of native american ancestry if the Cleveland Indians is offensive to them? This is all rediculous PC BS and Its out of hand. And Philly, they're not Fighting OR Irish. That term is offensive to people who hail from Ireland. ::) Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Predatory_Fins on January 14, 2006, 06:34:45 am Well we all know that our empire will fall sooner or later, thats the nature of history, it repeats. I believe the Politically Correct pussy society we have mutated into will eventually make us weaker, and we'll implode. I just hope it holds out until I'm dead an buried.
Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Dave Gray on January 14, 2006, 07:52:26 am I'll play the other side of this argument (although I have no qualms with the name redskins).
Certain team names, like the Florida State Seminoles, I don't see how anyone has a problem with. They have a native American as a mascot, but it's done with pride, and is no way a mockery of the real tribe. ...as a matter of fact, they are cloesly involved with the tribe. However, the term "Redskins" is a racial slur, like it or not. It's like having a team called the "Towelheads" or "slant-eyes" or something. ....at one point, that was probably acceptable, but now in time, it's not. Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Brian Fein on January 14, 2006, 08:45:18 am Quote It's like having a team called the "Towelheads" or "slant-eyes" or something. Awesome, I just got a new name for my fantasy football team! Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Frimp on January 14, 2006, 08:49:06 am When I was in Dallas a few years ago, I was talking to an old indian in a Denny's, and this topic came up. He was full blooded cherokee, down to the Native American clothing, long hair, etc. I asked him if he found it offensive. He said "Nope. I love it when the Redskins beat the Cowboys."
That pretty much says it all right there. The only people who find it offensive are people who WANT to find it offensive and bitch about something to make life miserable for the rest of us. Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Brian Fein on January 14, 2006, 11:03:26 am Quote No doubt...the Slant-Eyed Nimrods sounds fukkin' ferocious! ;D I was thinking more like the Blazing Towelheads... Title: Re: Enough already Post by: CdnDolfan on January 14, 2006, 01:32:43 pm I think a term is racial slur if it actually enrages people into fights over it. I lived for a while in Winnipeg Manitoba, and a guy I know got his ass kicked in for using "redskin" (not refering to the actual team) in earshot of a group of native youths.
Title: Re: Enough already Post by: bsfins on January 14, 2006, 01:36:19 pm Excuse me,but I'm going to open Pandoras box of worms with this....
I think this is a generational issue,I mentioned this before in a thread (I can't remember which,it was quite awhile back).I thought alot about this on my walk home from work. As a some skater Punk about ran me off the sidewalk,and I said "excuse you",his reply of "F-you" pretty much summed up how I felt.Semi Ironic he was wearing a black T-shirt with "Got jesus?" written on it. I feel the kids between 5-18 maybe even 20,are lacking a cause.60's 70's had vietnam,equal rights.I grew up in the 80's with say no to drugs,safe sex,Aids.The 90's the P.C movement really started rolling.Terrorism,and the war in Iraq aren't exactly causes the youth can get behind.So P.C is thier cause,they want us to be in a plain jane world,the future in the movie Demolition man. I think political correctness has always been around,it's just too much now.I want to say (maybe people my age,or a little older are to blame) I mean I see more kids that just plain need to be spanked,not given a timeout.Kids to day are over protected little wussies. I'm sorry for taking over the thread thundergod...I just feel it's all tied together.It's all the same zit that needs to be popped.... Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Frimp on January 14, 2006, 02:06:44 pm How about the Detroit Fighting Jihadists? Â ;D
Title: Re: Enough already Post by: crazy_scar_man on January 14, 2006, 04:58:14 pm I admit it's obsurd the way this issue is handled. But I also think that it's something that should be debated / talked about.
This country has a long history of explotation. Despite changes in modern attitude, I think it's still important we examine our past. I don't think the name Redskins isn't intentionally offense this day and age, but it does still represent a tragic part of our history. However, changing the way you reference a team is retarded. If they want to start a debate, they should talk about the issue instead of sweeping it under the rug. Plus, the West Palm Beach Cheap Cuban Workers would be a sweet name. Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Thundergod on January 14, 2006, 06:16:14 pm Quote  I feel the kids between 5-18 maybe even 20,are lacking a cause.60's 70's had vietnam,equal rights.I grew up in the 80's with say no to drugs,safe sex,Aids.The 90's the P.C movement really started rolling.Terrorism,and the war in Iraq aren't exactly causes the youth can get behind.So P.C is thier cause,they want us to be in a plain jane world,the future in the movie Demolition man. I think political correctness has always been around,it's just too much now.I want to say (maybe people my age,or a little older are to blame) I mean I see more kids that just plain need to be spanked,not given a timeout.Kids today are over protected little wussies. I agree whole heartedly,  people in our age group ARE to blame,  todays parents are yesterdays kids and I'm baffled as to why this change actually happened.  These parents grew up with all they deem wrong nowadays.  HUH?! You're right, children are way over-protected,  and it needs to stop. I believe if you deny someone growth it'll only hurt them in the end. Be a parent, not a friend. But I can't help but think about the hypocrisy,  in a country where PC is so overwhelming, the "N" word is used so much that it's becoming the norm in today's  youth. So much so that it is already ok to say it on television,  cartoons even! So when will it NOT be ok to use THIS racial slur?  20 years?  Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Dave Gray on January 14, 2006, 09:19:38 pm Quote When I was in Dallas a few years ago, I was talking to an old indian in a Denny's, and this topic came up. He was full blooded cherokee, down to the Native American clothing, long hair, etc. I asked him if he found it offensive. He said "Nope. I love it when the Redskins beat the Cowboys." That pretty much says it all right there. Yeah, you're probably right. Some guy you met at Denny's probably does represent everyone. Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Dave Gray on January 14, 2006, 09:22:09 pm Quote But I can't help but think about the hypocrisy,  in a country where PC is so overwhelming, the "N" word is used so much that it's becoming the norm in today's  youth. So much so that it is already ok to say it on television,  cartoons even! So when will it NOT be ok to use THIS racial slur?  20 years?  I'm not saying to censor and not allow the word "Redskin" on TV. People say it in real life, so it's acceptable for characters to use that slang...just like any other words. I think that it's reasonable for corporations not to use racial slurs as their logos though. Like I said before, this is no fault of the team -- this probably was an acceptable term when it was first coined...the world was different. But that won't fly today. If the Redskins were an empansion team, this wouldn't even be a discussion. Title: Re: Enough already Post by: JVides on January 14, 2006, 09:25:34 pm Quote No doubt...the Slant-Eyed Nimrods sounds fukkin' ferocious! YESSSSSS!!!! Title: Re: Enough already Post by: JVides on January 14, 2006, 09:31:09 pm Quote This country has a long history of explotation. This country is HARDLY alone here. I don't know why we feel like we need to feel all the guilt. As I've often said: I've lived or been everywhere; I've never seen a country with people as scared to say what they mean than Americans. The Brits, French, Spanish, Germans, Dutch were all engaged in colonialism (EXPLOITATION) long before this country was a gleam in its forefathers' eyes, yet I don't hear so much about the Brits and their raging "PC" issues. Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Cdogg on January 14, 2006, 09:31:33 pm I'm gonna be either the Delray Camel Jockeys or the Delray Doon Coons!!
Title: Re: Enough already Post by: JVides on January 14, 2006, 09:33:18 pm Quote Yeah, you're probably right. Some guy you met at Denny's probably does represent everyone LOL! ;D Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Philly Fin Fan on January 14, 2006, 09:34:12 pm Oddly enough, I remember about 10-15 years ago, the Chicago Blackhawks (hockey team, for those that don't follow hockey) put out all kinds of press releases that they would refer to themselves as the Hawks now. They also had a plan to phase out the Indian head logo, and go to an actual hawk. I don't know if they refer to themselves as the Hawks or Blackhawks nowadays, but they never changed their logo.
Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Frimp on January 14, 2006, 09:48:08 pm Dave, you missed my point. Intentionally probably.
My point was that the only people I hear crying about these names are the same crowd who wants to take away the last liberties that we Americans have. I havent heard any American Indian groups crying about being offended by these sports team names. Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Philly Fin Fan on January 14, 2006, 09:54:00 pm Quote Dave, you missed my point. Intentionally probably. My point was that the only people I hear crying about these names are the same crowd who wants to take away the last liberties that we Americans have. I havent heard any American Indian groups crying about being offended by these sports team names. Are you kidding me? There are tons of organizations of Native Americans trying to get Snyder to change his team name. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/15/AR2005071501700.html Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Frimp on January 14, 2006, 10:04:15 pm There is? EDIT...I read the link
But, that doesnt change my point on this. The media, and certain members of our government are behind the majority of this PC crap. Question...The only logo that I could see someone legitimately having a problem is the Cleveland Indians. Are there Native American groups after them? The only people I see after FSU are the BCS kooks. What about the Chiefs? Where's the outcry over that name? While we're at it, lets change the name "Arrowhead Stadium" Indian mascots are out of respect. No rascist sub plot at all. The entire PC movement is turning this world into a bunch of soft mama's boy crybabies. Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Philly Fin Fan on January 14, 2006, 10:19:37 pm Quote There is? EDIT...I read the link But, that doesnt change my point on this. The media, and certain members of our government are behind the majority of this PC crap. Question...The only logo that I could see someone legitimately having a problem is the Cleveland Indians. Are there Native American groups after them? The only people I see after FSU are the BCS kooks. What about the Chiefs? Where's the outcry over that name? While we're at it, lets change the name "Arrowhead Stadium" Indian mascots are out of respect. No rascist sub plot at all. The entire PC movement is turning this world into a bunch of soft mama's boy crybabies. As a matter of fact, there are groups trying to eliminate the "Chief Wahoo" logo. http://www.chuh.org/BlackGold/81-04/controversy-over-chief-w.html http://gbgm-umc.org/mission/news2000-2/umns083100tmsc.stm I don't think there is as much of an issue with the names "Indians" or "Chiefs" because they are not derogatory terms! I think you made reference to the N word earlier. Redskins is very similar to that term when it comes to Native Americans. Think of it like this- I'm Italian, and if there was a team named the "Italians", I wouldn't mind. But if there was a team called the "dagos" or "wops", I'd be upset as well. "Canucks" is a slang term for Canadians, like "Yankee" is a slang term for Americans. But they are not derogatory. Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Frimp on January 14, 2006, 11:25:01 pm I didnt mention the N word, but I can see your point. I still think its silly.
What's next? descendants of people who were pillaged by Vikings demanding that the Minnesota Vikings change their name? Title: Re: Enough already Post by: jtex316 on January 14, 2006, 11:58:39 pm Anyone wanna take a shot in the dark of what I think of this?
OF COURSE i think it's bullshit. Hey man, if someone made a team called the JTEX Fat Assholes, you think I would be offended? Hell no. How about the Jtex wetback western europeans? Not a chance in hell. It's become "hip" to be offended by sheer bullshit that predates your entire family, just like it's become hip to wear your IPOD everywhere you go. You're almost respected amongst your peers in your society and "included" in groups if you take offense to total stupidity and are a member of PETA, the NAACP, and WWF (not Wrestling, the shit-holes who fought for 20 years to steal the name from Vince McMahon). Here are the team names in Sports that can be taken as "offensive", even in the most obsurd way possible, because some group wants to make a "name" for themselves, or make a quick buck or two: Atlanta Braves (native americans) Chicago White Sox (some slavery bullshit) Kansas City Royals (some white supremacy crap) L.A. Dodgers (accusations of draft dodging) Miwaukee Brewers (all a bunch of drunks) Cincinatti Reds (native american reference) Cleveland Indians (do I have to explain this one?) Pittsburgh Pirates (larceny and deceitfulness) San Diego Padres (hispanic male dominance) L.A. Angels (religious rights) Boston Celtics (irish misrepresentation) Portland Trail Blazers (illegal drug assumption) New England Patriots (they'll come up with something) Cleveland Browns (african-american propaganda) Pittsburgh Steelers (no they don't actually STEAL moron) Kansas City Chiefs (the natives, again) Washington Redskins (again the freaking indians) New Orleans Saints (yeah right...saints at madri gras) By the way, has anyone EVER EVER EVER heard Native Americans complaining about the team names? It's always these outside groups who do the bitching. They don't need any defense lawyers, so shut the HELL up. I think people use the "i'm offended" card way too much, and in situations where it's clear they are completely lost and need to pull the near Ace of spades out of their ass to save them from whatever situation they're in. Title: Re: Enough already Post by: Frimp on January 15, 2006, 12:22:51 am Quote Anyone wanna take a shot in the dark of what I think of this? OF COURSE i think it's bullshit. Â Hey man, if someone made a team called the JTEX Fat Assholes, you think I would be offended? Â Hell no. Â How about the Jtex wetback western europeans? Â Not a chance in hell. It's become "hip" to be offended by sheer bullshit that predates your entire family, just like it's become hip to wear your IPOD everywhere you go. Â You're almost respected amongst your peers in your society and "included" in groups if you take offense to total stupidity and are a member of PETA, the NAACP, and WWF (not Wrestling, the shit-holes who fought for 20 years to steal the name from Vince McMahon). Here are the team names in Sports that can be taken as "offensive", even in the most obsurd way possible, because some group wants to make a "name" for themselves, or make a quick buck or two: Atlanta Braves (native americans) Chicago White Sox (some slavery bullshit) Kansas City Royals (some white supremacy crap) L.A. Dodgers (accusations of draft dodging) Miwaukee Brewers (all a bunch of drunks) Cincinatti Reds (native american reference) Cleveland Indians (do I have to explain this one?) Pittsburgh Pirates (larceny and deceitfulness) San Diego Padres (hispanic male dominance) L.A. Angels (religious rights) Boston Celtics (irish misrepresentation) Portland Trail Blazers (illegal drug assumption) New England Patriots (they'll come up with something) Cleveland Browns (african-american propaganda) Pittsburgh Steelers (no they don't actually STEAL moron) Kansas City Chiefs (the natives, again) Washington Redskins (again the freaking indians) New Orleans Saints (yeah right...saints at madri gras) By the way, has anyone EVER EVER EVER heard Native Americans complaining about the team names? Â It's always these outside groups who do the bitching. Â They don't need any defense lawyers, so shut the HELL up. I think people use the "i'm offended" card way too much, and in situations where it's clear they are completely lost and need to pull the near Ace of spades out of their ass to save them from whatever situation they're in. Â BRAVO!!!! Title: Re: Enough already Post by: bsfins on January 15, 2006, 08:00:28 am The one example that I had in mind through this whole argument,nobody mentioned...
the Washington Bullets,being changed to the Washington Wizards. Straight from wikpedia.... On May 15, 1997, the Bullets officially unveiled their new name and logo. They had changed it because the name Bullets carried a violent overtone (Washington, D.C. regularly ranks at or near the top US murder cities per capita). The names Seadogs, Express, Mustangs, and Monuments were also considered but rejected. Also that year the Wizards moved to the MCI Center located at 601 F Street in Northwest Washington, DC. The MCI Center is also home to the Washington Capitals of the National Hockey League and the Washington Mystics of the WNBA. I have to be tottaly blunt on this one...I'm amazed that some wacko religous group hasn't complained about "wizards". Magic,worshipping the the Devil. ::) |