Welcome to the circus that is the Red Sox

[masterfins]

Where does Francona land??? NY Mets?

[Brian Fein]

I thought I heard somewhere yesterday that Theo was entertaining taking a job elsewhere.  If so, do you think Francona comes back to the Sox?

[SportsChick]

This Sox fan could only wish but I don't think Theo is the only issue. I think it exists all the way up the chain, especially in light of what Main posted in the OP.

[bsfins]

The latest rumors out of Cubs land is the Cubs, like Cherington,not so much Theo...(which was rumored if the Cubs wanted Theo, Cherington would take over as the Red Sox GM) Kind of an interesting tidbit..I guess...But it fits with the latest rumors out of Cub land,of going cheap and not wanting to spend big...

[MaineDolFan]

I thought I heard somewhere yesterday that Theo was entertaining taking a job elsewhere.  If so, do you think Francona comes back to the Sox?

He can't.  He clearly lost the clubhouse.  Don't let the song and dance fool you, the owners wanted him gone as much as he wanted to be gone.  This wasn't Theo's call, it was John Henry's.

[MaineDolFan]

I would also like to point a couple things about Theo.  He'll go down in history as the guy who brought Boston two titles after 86 years of winning silence, however he should not get as much credit as one would think.

2004 season:  Prior to "the trade", Theo attempted to unload Manny to Texas for A-Rod.  Nomar would have gone in that trade as well.  Boston's solution as SS was internal.  Does anyone think that Boston wins in 2004 without Manny (even with A Rod) and without the defense and stability brought by O-Cab and Minky?  I don't.  Prior to "the trade", Boston's team defense was near the bottom of the league.  In less than two months Cabby's solid glove alone brought them to 15 in MLB, 6th in the AL.  Offense wasn't the issue that year, it was defense.

Vital parts of 2004 that Theo had nothing to do with:

Bullpen pieces:  Mike Timlin, Alan Embree.  Embree might be the sole reason Boston was able to hold off New York in the ALCS.  He is often over looked, but Boston's 7th and 8th inning guys were -- simply put -- lock down.  They were pre-Theo guys.

Rotation pieces:  Pedro came in via trade, pre-Theo.  'Tek and DLowe came from Seattle via trade, pre-Theo.  Does Boston sniff a WS without those three?  DLowe was a post season monster.  'Tek was still 'Tek in those days.

3rd base:  Billy Ballgame Mueller was a guy that Theo didn't want, uncle Larry did.  That turns out okay for them.

Outfield:  Theo had nothing to do with Manny, Nixon or Johnny Damon.  All pre Theo.

Theo was also responsible for certain guys that year that almost blew the whole thing out of the water:   Byung-Hyun Kim.  Ramiro Mendoza.  Curtis Leskanic.  The bullpen guys that Theo DID bring in were awful.  The players he brought in for bench / utility were useless:   Ricky Gutiérrez.   Pokey Reese. Adam Hyzdu.  He brought in Dave Roberts who, until "the steal" contributed almost nothing.

YES, there was "the trade."  Before "the trade" a lot of wrong could have gone down.  Theo had a part in Foulke, Schilling, Bellhorn.

So, you tell me:  How much credit does Theo get for 2004? 

2007 flat out doesn't happen without Josh Beckett.  Theo is on records saying that he would not have made the trade that brought Beckett to Boston. 

Free agents are a mess:  Renteria, Lugo, Drew, Crawford, Lackey, Dice-K...the list goes on. 

Trades are slightly better, however the follow up is awful:  Obtain Bay, who is a mashing machine in Boston.  Allow him to walk.  Obtain V-Mart who is an RBI wrecking crew and hits left handed pitching like it's slow pitch co-ed softball.  Allow him to walk. 

Where Theo gets credit is the farm system, however that only goes so far.  He's smart enough to put the right scouting in place in order to draft guys like Pedey, Papelbon, Bard, Ellsbury, Lester, etc.  He's had some real misses, too, though. Like Craig Hanson.  Theo also has something that a lot of teams do not, almost unlimited money to dump into scouting and development.

If you want to see a true genius in player development, look no further than Tampa Bay's Andrew Friedman.  I would love to see what that guy could go with a larger budget.  I would love, love, love to see him in Boston's front office.

It isn't like Theo scouted these guys.  He just knows the right people to hire to scout them.  Some guys, like Papelbon, fell into Boston's lap because the teams above him didn't have the resources to sign him. 

Me?  I've never been sold on Theo.  I think he's a bright mind, always have.  I think there are worse GM's in the game, that's for damn sure.  I also think he gets way too much credit where it wasn't earned and not enough blame for the things that have gone badly.

My two cents, anyway.

[EDGECRUSHER]

I agree with pretty much everything you said Maine, but I would like to had that the Schilling deal was made to screw the Yankees. Let me explain. Both the Yankees and Sox wanted Schilling as he was still an elite pitcher. The Yankees offer(it escapes me right now), was better than Boston's. Boston's was built around Casey Fossum, so pardon my use of hyperbole when I say "That is the worst package ever".

The D'Backs didn't take the Yankees offer because a few years prior they had a handshake deal with David Wells, who then turned around and signed with the Yankees. So, that was a bit of revenge, although they screwed their own team in the process.

[MaineDolFan]

Very true.  Schilling also said that it had a lot do to with the way he was courted.  Remember, he had full no trade rights.  The Diamondbacks gave the Sox and Yankees permission to reach out to him.  Schilling was miffed that no one from the Yankees ever even called him to talk.  Theo, John Henry and Larry Luchino flew to Arizona and joined Schilling for dinner...on Thanksgiving.

So Schilling, really, was the one who is to blame for that.  He told the DBacks he wouldn't accept a trade anywhere but Boston.