NFL QB tiers (from Hartline thread)

[BigDaddyFin]

^^You talking about Eli or Big Ben? I think I'd have to put Big Ben in there too. He's not quite as flashy as the other guys, but he's a gamer.

Both.  YOu can put Rothlisburger in there with the 1-a group.  I think he'd be dogshit on any other team in football but that's not really the argument.

[Spider-Dan]

I would agree today but only because Brees and Rodgers are coming off their best years and Ben hasn't been healthy lately. Only a year or 2 ago I would have disagreed with you and I would have said that it was defensible that Ben was better than either Rodgers or Brees at that time.

Well, a year or two ago (more specifically: pre-2009) the top tier would have been Brady/Peyton, and it still would have been laughable to suggest that Ben was better than either one of them.

Notwithstanding the fact that injuries matter (otherwise, Peyton would already be back in the top tier), there was really never any point where you could legitimately call Ben the best QB in the league.  He's never even received a single vote for NFL MVP.  That says a lot.

I also can't say that next year I won't think that Ben is the best QB in the NFL again if he's healthy and those other 3 don't have the years they had last year. I'm more of a "What's his top level of play" type of guy when it comes to comparing them rather than a "Who's playing at the top level at this minute" type of guy because that changes from game to game and year to year.

I think Ben would need to have a 2009 Brees-type year just to insert himself into the discussion.  As I just mentioned, he's never been anywhere near an MVP candidate, which distances him from the top three.  Right now, the only thing on Ben's resume is team championships; he doesn't even have a SB MVP (and, in fact, literally turned in the worst performance of any SB-winning QB, ever).

Now, could Ben turn in a season like Rodgers just did and catapult himself into the top tier discussion?  Sure.  He's close enough.  But then again, so could Rivers or Vick.  And that's how QBs progress from the second-tier to the first-tier.

[Spider-Dan]

That doesn't invalidate the theory that "top tier" is subjective. That just proves that there are clearly indefensible positions, it doesn't make ALL positions indefensible.

But when we get down to specifics, even you just agreed that (as of right now) you don't think Ben can reasonably be considered the best QB in the league.  That pretty much makes the claim that Ben is top-tier... well, an indefensible position, because the rest of the top-tier can be considered so.

And that's what MikeO is saying.  Anyone can say that [player x] is top-tier... that doesn't mean that such a statement is well-supported.

[Pappy13]

But when we get down to specifics, even you just agreed that (as of right now) you don't think Ben can reasonably be considered the best QB in the league.

But we aren't talking about best in the league, we are talking about top tier which we already said didn't mean he had to be the best only very close and I think he is. You can't tell me that you think that Brady or Brees is actually the best in the league right now, today, not after the year Rodgers just had, they are only close. So how close is close enough? That's the question and the answer to that is question is completely subjective no matter how you slice it.

[Spider-Dan]

Both Brady and Brees threw for more yards than anyone else ever has, breaking a 28-year-old record in the process.  Brady took his team to the Super Bowl.  Both of them have displayed more consistency at this elite level than Rodgers has (so far); Rodgers had one amazing non-title year and one pretty good championship year.  You can make the argument for any of them.

Of course, all of these ratings are subjective, so if that's your point, I guess you're welcome to it.