Rounds 2-3 Draft Thread

[Pappy13]

That's my whole point.  Had we not gotten cute with pre-draft trades, we could've had a stud running back like Javonte Williams in addition to what we currently have.

I think you are forgetting about stud running back Gerrid Doaks.

[Tenshot13]

I'm just going to come out and say, fuck Javonte Williams.  He's a RB that was taken in the 2nd round, I feel no regret not drafting him.  He's not Travis Henry, he runs a 4.55 forty which isn't that fast, we aren't missing out on some great RB.  He might be a fine player, but y'all are acting like we passed on Barry Sanders or something.

[Pappy13]

I just can't believe we are going into next season even worse off at linebacker and running back knowing this exact situation going into the draft, and having the capital to fix it.

It's kinda hard to separate LB/DE positions in the Dolphins Hybrid scheme. Even if you think the LB position is weaker the combination of LB/Edge is improved in my humble opinion.

As far as RB goes I'm in favor of getting better up front rather than getting better at RB and I think we did that. We'll see how it turns out.

[Downunder Dolphan]

Oh?  Name me a Superbowl dynasty in recent memory that had a stud RB.

As Spider has alluded to, it depends on your definition of a dynasty and what you mean by recent memory.

I mentioned two HOF backs on page 2 of this thread (Harris, Emmitt Smith), so I am guessing that's not recent enough?

Spider has covered a lot of this ground in my absence, so without trying to be too repetitious and hopefully adding more food for thought, if you look beyond the Brady bunch the previous big dynasties had stud backs - Dallas of the nineties had Smith, San Francisco had Roger Craig and Ricky Watters, Pittsburgh had Harris, the Dolphins had Czonka.

At the risk of thread drift, does Washington count as a dynasty? (four Superbowl appearances in the 80s & 1991 for three titles with the same coach but different QBs). They had Riggins for two of them, the 1991 team had Byner.

If you stretch that to consecutive Superbowl appearances, you have Faulk for the Rams, T.D. for the Broncos. Maybe we shouldn't include Thurman Thomas for the Bills because they didn't win any? (even though four consecutive Superbowl appearances is kind of unique).
 

[Tenshot13]

You guys are having to go waaayy back, the game has changed a lot since then.  As I mentioned, you have to go back to 2014, to find a Superbowl winning team with a stud RB.  It doesn't count if a guy was a pro bowler the year before but was only serviceable at best the year the team won the superbowl lol. 

[Downunder Dolphan]

It's kinda hard to separate LB/DE positions in the Dolphins Hybrid scheme. Even if you think the LB position is weaker the combination of LB/Edge is improved in my humble opinion.

As far as RB goes I'm in favor of getting better up front rather than getting better at RB and I think we did that. We'll see how it turns out.

Some really interesting points brought up here!

We did a hell of a lot of blitzing last season, and maybe it was because of weakness in the DL? Do you think we will see a lot more 5 man fronts and less linebackers this year? Or the pass rush will be good enough with a 3 or 4 man front to allow more coverage? (either by linebackers or additional corners & safeties)

If that's the case I can at least kind of see what they have in mind, although it still seems a big risk letting Van Noy go with no replacement. I may be overrating him, but in the games I saw I thought our defense functioned its best with him in the thick of it. As much as I liked what I saw from Baker and Van Ginkel, they are going to have to step up and be a lot more consistent to fill that gap. If we do use more two linebacker sets, it's basically daring the opposition to run the ball right at us too, for better or worse...

As for our rushing game, there was a report yesterday that Flores said he is planning that the improved passing game with Waddle & Fuller as deep threats will help spread out the defensive front to allow the (improved) OL to create more successful running lanes. See how it goes and hope for the best, although I am still skeptical.  

[Pappy13]

We did a hell of a lot of blitzing last season, and maybe it was because of weakness in the DL?

It absolutely was because the edge rushers on the team couldn't get pressure so blitzes were used. I expect that Phillips will be expected to rush from the edge on passing downs and create more pressure which leaves less pressure on the LB's to fill that role. I'm also wondering if they will move Baker to the outside and have McKinney play inside when in the 4-3. I thought that was a weak spot for the Dolphins last year as Baker had a hard time fighting off blocks and making tackles and is better suited to the outside, McKinney might be better in the middle. As you said we shall see how it works out.

It's interesting to note that Phillips is listed as a LB on the Dolphins website. With that in mind I'm not sure the LB group isn't better than it was last year.

[Spider-Dan]

It doesn't count if a guy was a pro bowler the year before but was only serviceable at best the year the team won the superbowl lol.

Apparently your definition of "stud" is All-Pro, or something?  It has to be someone with a claim to the best RB in the league, or it doesn't matter...?  I'm talking about a Pro Bowl-caliber RB, not a HOF RB.

SB champions usually have a Pro Bowl caliber RB, and it's pretty silly to say that a RB who made last season's Pro Bowl doesn't count as a Pro Bowl-caliber RB.

[Spider-Dan]

That's my whole point.  Had we not gotten cute with pre-draft trades, we could've had a stud running back like Javonte Williams in addition to what we currently have.

Without a pre-draft trade, how could MIA possibly have picked Williams?  At the end of the season, MIA had 3, 18, and 36.  Picking Williams at 3 is a fireable offense, picking him at 18 (as the first RB off the board!) is an incredible reach, and he was already gone at 36.

[Tenshot13]

Apparently your definition of "stud" is All-Pro, or something?  It has to be someone with a claim to the best RB in the league, or it doesn't matter...?  I'm talking about a Pro Bowl-caliber RB, not a HOF RB.

SB champions usually have a Pro Bowl caliber RB, and it's pretty silly to say that a RB who made last season's Pro Bowl doesn't count as a Pro Bowl-caliber RB.

If they weren't pro bowl caliber the year that team won the superbowl then they didn't really contribute that much to that teams success that year

[EDGECRUSHER]

Flores said today that the addition of Waddle and Fuller will greatly improve our rushing offense because the defense now can't crowd the line for fear that Waddle and Fuller will blow right by them.

I'm not saying Gaskin is Barry Sanders, but you can't rush without the rest of your offense in check so it was pointless trying to "upgrade" at RB before the other stuff. If he and the other key offensive players play a full season, it would be surprising to me if Gaskin didn't have 1,000 yards rushing.

[Sunstroke]

I hate the term "Pro Bowl RB," mainly because the criteria isn't set, and much of it is a popularity contest or some team's fan base stuffing the ballot box.

All-Pro is fine...only one of those each year.

[Spider-Dan]

If they weren't pro bowl caliber the year that team won the superbowl then they didn't really contribute that much to that teams success that year

If they were Pro Bowl caliber the year the team won, that doesn't mean they "contributed"... that means they were one of the best backs in the league.  It usually means they were the primary offensive reason the team won.  That's an incredibly high bar.

I don't think anyone is saying if you don't have one of the best backs in the league that year, you can't win. But you generally DO need to have a RB capable of playing at that level.  Very few teams win the SB with a backfield of replacement-level journeymen.

[Pappy13]

You can stop the hate for Denver. According to "sources" Miami was not going to draft Williams anyway.

Miami was planning on picking Holland

[EDGECRUSHER]

You can stop the hate for Denver. According to "sources" Miami was not going to draft Williams anyway.

Miami was planning on picking Holland

Miami was never going to draft a RB even if Harris was available at 36.