Odds that Luigi gets off?

[Spider-Dan]

That makes it even more stark: if I punch someone while armed, and they try to grab my gun while defending themselves, I can kill them in "self-defense."

Looks like Luigi's real error was in not running up and starting a brawl with the CEO before shooting him.

[Phishfan]

Strawman. He didn't punch anyone or start a brawl and I definitely wouldn't if you are insinuating me. I don't carry my guns around except to go to the range but I won't condemn those that do s legally. I don't think he should have been there carrying a gun around but it wasn't illegal to my knowledge of the situation. People that didn't like what he stood for took up violence against him and tried to take his gun by force. I would be scared shitless especially since three people gave it a try.

[Spider-Dan]

First things first: in a Stand Your Ground state, if someone knocks me down and pursues during a fight - a fight I say they instigated, a claim which is uncontested by any (living) person or video - I have a pretty clear path towards asserting that I felt my life was under threat.

Second, if the action that gave Rittenhouse a license to kill is "they grabbed for his gun," then I can start a fight while open carrying and if they "grab for my gun" in their own self-defense, I get to kill them.  I am not saying this is what happened in Kenosha; I am saying that these are the outcomes that these psycho laws enable.

The fact that armed people can start fights and kill the other party with no criminal repercussions is total insanity.  The only reason why Ahmaud Arbery's murderers were even arrested (to say nothing of being convicted) is because they foolishly released the video they took of his execution.

So again, I say: Luigi's mistake was in not first starting a fight with this CEO (while armed), because then the laws of our insane country would somehow protect him after killing his target.

[Phishfan]

You repeatedly ignore the part where in both instances the party has to show an effort to retreat.

[Spider-Dan]

In Stand Your Ground states that is literally not true.
And if there is no video and your victim is dead, I can say what I want: he was the "aggressor," I "tried to retreat" before he grabbed for my gun, etc.

Again, Ahmaud Arbery's murderers weren't even arrested, and neither was Zimmerman until there was a national uproar over a slain unarmed child.

[Phishfan]

If the Queen had balls she would be the King. It's pointless to keep going over hypothetical situations. You are just going to keep adding another what if it was completely dark, in a rainstorm, without anyone to hear, etc.

[Spider-Dan]

I am literally citing real life events as evidence, but OK.

[Phishfan]

You have repeatedly said that you aren't saying that your example is what actually happened. That means you are making a hypothetical one .

[Spider-Dan]

Let me clear this up:  I am saying, "This absurd hypothetical is realistic due to our insane laws.  As evidence for my claim, here are similar instances that have actually occurred."

Now, I do recognize that it is not actually realistic for Luigi to pick a fight with healthcare CEO Brian Thompson in order to execute him then get off scot free, because Brian Thompson is not a DEI victim and his life matters to the authorities.  But as long as you pick the right kind of victim, you can absolutely arm yourself and pick fights with people to legally execute them.  Again, we have seen this happen.

[CF DolFan]

Let me clear this up:  I am saying, "This absurd hypothetical is realistic due to our insane laws.  As evidence for my claim, here are similar instances that have actually occurred."

Now, I do recognize that it is not actually realistic for Luigi to pick a fight with healthcare CEO Brian Thompson in order to execute him then get off scot free, because Brian Thompson is not a DEI victim and his life matters to the authorities.  But as long as you pick the right kind of victim, you can absolutely arm yourself and pick fights with people to legally execute them.  Again, we have seen this happen.

This is as stupid as saying Shedeur Sanders is being undervalued because he is a black QB when the top QB is black, as well as those last year. It's a straw man argument when there is no argument left and just plain silly.

[SCFinfan]

If he gets off because the police in some way violated the Constitution and it creates and evidentiary issue which cannot be overcome - fine. Good even. That's the way the stuff is supposed to work.

If he gets off bc of jury wokeism (it's a thing, I use it here in SC, so it's definitely a thing elsewhere), bad. Why bad? Would you have wanted Chauvin to get off bc the jurors were hardcore racists? No. Flip side here. Juries are empaneled to give "true words" (vere dictum: i.e. verdicts). A jury too ideologically blinkered is bad not just for this case, but for *all* cases, as it undermines the basis of the jury trial system itself. That's a very, very ugly rabbit hole to go down, I assure you...