Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
February 03, 2025, 11:18:15 am
Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
News: Brian Fein is now blogging weekly!  Make sure to check the homepage for his latest editorial.
+  The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums
|-+  TDMMC Forums
| |-+  Dolphins Discussion (Moderators: CF DolFan, MaineDolFan)
| | |-+  Just what do we want here, anyway?
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: Just what do we want here, anyway?  (Read 2104 times)
JVides
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 2915



« on: September 30, 2009, 01:08:00 pm »

So, Miami's 0-3, and the panic's setting in on these boards.  The other day, I read a Bill Simmons piece on the Patriots, in which he wondered if their run was coming to an end.  One of the things he spoke about in his article was New England's run of excellent drafts beginning in 2001 - 2003 and good ones from 2004 - 2005, and how those drafts laid the foundation - his term - for the great New England teams of the past years.

Anyway, it's been well documented here and everywhere that between the Zach Thomas / Jason Taylor drafts and (maybe) the 2008 draft, the Dolphins have drafted a whole lot of nothing.  (OK, the 2005 draft brought Ronnie Brown, Channing Crowder, and Matt Roth), but 2006 - 2007 were awful.  So as I see it, Miami's in year two of a hopefully good drafting period, and laying the foundation for a solid, young team that could (if it all goes splendidly well) grow into a long-time powerhouse.

Some would counter that Miami should be spending money to bring in seasoned veterans (probably guys in their early thirties, given that, usually, only 2 types of players generally leave their teams in free agency: guys who flopped with their original teams; guys who gave their best years to another team and cash out with a new team).

So, reader, do you vote to stay the course, build through youth, etc..., or do you vote for the veteran quick fix option?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2009, 01:43:21 pm by JVides » Logged

"under wandering stars I've grown
by myself but not alone
I ask no one"
Metallica, "Wherever I may Roam"
Dave Gray
Administrator
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 30884

It's doo-doo, baby!

26384964 davebgray@comcast.net davebgray floridadavegray
WWW Email
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2009, 01:20:25 pm »

I don't think it's an either/or scenario.  I think that the salary cap has changed the league a lot to where it's more about finding value in your players than just getting the best talent.  To do that, I think you have to find the occasional veteran who can still perform for a price that's reasonable, in addition to drafting for areas of need and finding Patrick Cobb types who will make plays outside of the spotlight.

I think we need to stop thinking about where guys were drafted, when evaluating their worth.  For example, Ted Ginn is our best receiver.  He is not a great receiver, however, it makes no sense to get rid of him, because he's still the best we've got and there's no value in the trade.  At this point, we need to forget where he was drafted, recognize him for what value he does have, and then try to acquire players to complement his skills.
Logged

I drink your milkshake!
JVides
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 2915



« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2009, 01:50:13 pm »

Dave, while I would generally agree with what you say - especially the Ginn part - I think most teams stick to an either / or system, whether they say it/think it or don't.  The last few Shula years were free agency years (remember the "great" 1992 or 1993 Dolphins team that boasted 19 former first rounders?).  The Jimmy years were build through the draft years, with occasional free agent acquisitions.  The Wannstedt/Spielman years that followed were free agency years, to the point that Miami was trading early round picks for players, not even waiting for free agency.  The Saban/Cameron years were...eh...I have no idea what those were.  Poorly executed build through the draft years, I guess.  Point is, it seems teams/brain trusts seem to lean one way or another even if they try to walk the line between both systems.

While I would ideally like to see a good mix, as you say, I think a team should have a philosophy that says X (majority) percent of our players should be had through the draft, while Y (minority) should be free agent pickups.  This is the direction I think The Dolphins are going, and I hope they stick to it.
Logged

"under wandering stars I've grown
by myself but not alone
I ask no one"
Metallica, "Wherever I may Roam"
Doc-phin
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 1325


« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2009, 03:05:03 pm »

The answer is almost always to build through the draft.

Why?  You should never overpay for a player if you have a salary cap.  Free agents were either let go because they wanted more than there value or they just aren't good enough anymore.  If they were worth their asking price they would have been re-signed.

A close 2nd is to trade with a team that has a surplus in a given area and/or is desperate in another area.  Again, teams don't get rid of good players unless they have to.

The draft is the only way to get a player that isn't a cast off and not overpay that player.  The only problem is that you must be a very good talent evaluator to draft well.

Free agency can help fill lower end roster voids but should never be looked upon for elite talent.
Logged
Dave Gray
Administrator
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 30884

It's doo-doo, baby!

26384964 davebgray@comcast.net davebgray floridadavegray
WWW Email
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2009, 03:54:08 pm »

Is it really a predetermined choice of whether or not to draft or go to free-agency?  I would think that a lot of that is determined by the caliber of players available in free agency or the draft in any one year.

If we needed a QB and we thought that Feeley was a better option than anyone we could draft, it makes sense to spend a pick on him.  I think the big problem with any of this is not the strategy, but just being wrong about the players.

If Feeley was actually a good QB, nobody would think twice about spending a 2nd round pick on him.  Same goes for Beck.  ...acquired different ways, but same result.  Our problem has not been our methods.  It's been our player evaluations.
Logged

I drink your milkshake!
YoFuggedaboutit
Guest
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2009, 06:38:40 pm »

The answer is almost always to build through the draft.

Agreed.  Free agency is used to fill needs at a lot of role playing positions (offensive guard, #2 or #3 receiver, backup QB, kicker/punter, special teams player).

Washington is a perfect example of what happens to teams that try to build through free agency.  Since Dan Snyder took over as owner in 1999, the Redskins have been to the playoffs only four times, and have never made it past the second round. 
Logged
Defense54
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 4406



« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2009, 07:16:52 pm »

So, Miami's 0-3, and the panic's setting in on these boards.  The other day, I read a Bill Simmons piece on the Patriots, in which he wondered if their run was coming to an end.  One of the things he spoke about in his article was New England's run of excellent drafts beginning in 2001 - 2003 and good ones from 2004 - 2005, and how those drafts laid the foundation - his term - for the great New England teams of the past years.

Anyway, it's been well documented here and everywhere that between the Zach Thomas / Jason Taylor drafts and (maybe) the 2008 draft, the Dolphins have drafted a whole lot of nothing.  (OK, the 2005 draft brought Ronnie Brown, Channing Crowder, and Matt Roth), but 2006 - 2007 were awful.  So as I see it, Miami's in year two of a hopefully good drafting period, and laying the foundation for a solid, young team that could (if it all goes splendidly well) grow into a long-time powerhouse.

Some would counter that Miami should be spending money to bring in seasoned veterans (probably guys in their early thirties, given that, usually, only 2 types of players generally leave their teams in free agency: guys who flopped with their original teams; guys who gave their best years to another team and cash out with a new team).

So, reader, do you vote to stay the course, build through youth, etc..., or do you vote for the veteran quick fix option?

Good Points above. Stay the course........Believe in the Great white Tuna.  Wink
Logged

JVides
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 2915



« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2009, 07:27:54 pm »

So, if we believe in buildingthrough the draft, then consider:

WR - Ginn - Drafted
TE - Fasano - Acquired
LT - Long - Drafted
LG - Smiley - Acquired
C - Grove - Acquired
RG - Thomas - Drafted
RT - Carey - Drafted
WR - Camarillo/Bess - Acquired/"Drafted"
FB - Polite - Acquired
RB - Brown - Drafted
QB - Henne - Drafted

DE - Langford - Drafted
NT - Ferguson - Acquired
DE - Starks/Merling - Acquired/Drafted
OLB - Porter - Acquired
ILB - Ayodele - Acquired
ILB - Crowder - Acquired
OLB - Taylor - Drafted
CB - Allen - Acquired
SS - Bell - Drafted
FS - Wilson - Acquired
CB - Smith - Drafted

So, from 22 starters (24 including "platoon" guys), 12 are drafted or college free agents ("drafted"), 12 are acquired.  That shows how badly past drafts have gone, that the team has needed to go out and find 12 guys to plug into the rotation.  As stated above, usually the guys you get as FAs are older guys who might be past their primes (Porter, Ferguson, Allen, Wilson) or guys who maybe weren't good enough for their old teams (Fasano, Ayodele, Starks, Camarillo).  We can't despair as the team tries to correct this ratio.  It will take a few more drafts to get the percentages right.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2009, 07:39:05 pm by JVides » Logged

"under wandering stars I've grown
by myself but not alone
I ask no one"
Metallica, "Wherever I may Roam"
Sunstroke
YJFF Member
Uber Member
*****
Posts: 22869

Stop your bloodclot cryin'!


Email
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2009, 07:30:39 pm »


Just what do we want here, anyway?
So, Miami's 0-3...

What I want is a 13-3 season at this point, followed by a Cinderella-esque waltz through a three game playoff dance card that culminates with the hefting of a Lombardi trophy. However, since I gave up recreational drugs recently, I do understand that this just isn't as realistic as the pumpkin scenario, but if you ask me what I want...that's what I want.

What I hope happens, if the sweet-smoke pipe dream above doesn't work out, is a continued effort to build this team according to Parcells-Ireland-Sparano's plan. This means putting young players on the field and seeing what they can give you the rest of this season, and then a good draft/FA acquisition run in the offseason so that the team is more talented and deeper next season.

Logged

"There's no such thing as objectivity. We're all just interpreting signals from the universe and trying to make sense of them. Dim, shaky, weak, staticky little signals that only hint at the complexity of a universe that we cannot begin to comprehend."
~ Micah Leggat
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

The Dolphins Make Me Cry - Copyright© 2008 - Designed and Marketed by Dave Gray


Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines