NO Palmer or Young to Miami according to Mort

[Sunstroke]

No, I recognize the logic (or, the idea of it)... but it doesn't hold up in this case.  SD scored the second-most points in the league, allowed less than one additional point per game (compared to NE), and their defense didn't allow people to run up and down the field.

A good defense doesn't simply allow other (clearly one-dimensional!) offenses to get first-down after first-down, just because their own offense is good.  NE allowed the third most opposition first-downs in the league.

I swear, Spidey...sometimes I want to tell you that fire is hot, just for the enjoyment of listening to you explain how it's actually cold.

I wasn't comparing New England to San Diego...or Miami to San Diego. I wasn't saying that the playcalling theory can be laid across the entire NFL like a blanket to explain every yardage/points parallel deviation. I could, of course, but it would require the NFL to first clone all the players and coaches so that every team had the exact same cast of characters.

(and even then, it probably wouldn't work...clone psychology is such an inexact science)

What I WAS saying, is that New England's statistical position last season, as compared to Miami's statistical position last season, is likely due to the playcalling philosophies of Miami...and New England...and their opponents, as demonstrated in common situations (New England with a lead, Miami with a deficit).

And...fire is hot, dammit.

[David Fulcher]

That is not a solid defense.  It's a collection of frontrunners that were fortunate to get a record-setting season from their QB.

Bullshit. Their D was well below average. The 14-2 record was achieved IN SPITE of their defense.

Calling it "damn good" is just plain laughable.

I agree with the both of ya's.  Just giving it the good ol' fashioned "eye test", the Pats' defense didn't impress me in any games aside from the 45-3 MNF drubbing of the Jets and then the subsequent drubbing of Chicago at the new Soldier Field the next week in pretty much a Snow Bowl type game (gotta admit, the Pats are getting pretty good at those considering how badly they dismantled the Titans at home in one of those the previous season).  I mean, if you want to count the Weeks 16 and 17 games against the Bills and the Dolphins as good defensive games, then have at it, I guess, but I think pretty much everyone here at least knows how that MIA team--particularly the offense--was playing at year's end.

Other than that, not only did NE's defense not impress in other games, often they just sucked.  30 points given up at home to Buffalo in Week 3 (though granted, 6 of those were on a C.J. Spiller KO return for a TD, but still...), 34 surrendered against an otherwise mediocre Browns team all season (aside from their big win against the Saints @ NO 2 weeks before), and then the one that really got me on Thanksgiving Day, when they gave up 24 points by early in the 3rd qtr to the Lions before they finally put the clamps down and pulled away while the Lions melted down (big surprise!). 

Basically, NE's defense was average at best, and at other times just mediocre or even bad throughout the season until the last 5 regular season games, where I will give them credit, they did buckle down and play well against some good (Jets, Bears) teams and bad (Bills, Dolphins at that point) teams, only getting into a *shootout* with the eventual champion Packers (led by Matt Flynn that game).  But to sit here and say that they were really good or "damn good" last season...pfft!  Opportunistic, maybe, and there is something to be said about that, no doubt, but those suckers were no better than us defensively, and I'm with Spider anyways--I'd take our D over theirs in a heartbeat!

As for the original topic at hand, while I'm slightly disappointed that we probably won't even have a shot at a Palmer or a VY, mainly just because I believe that Henne needs some good competition this offseason and a good veteran presence a la Pennington anyways, I'm also with the camp unwilling to give up picks at this point for an aged veteran and/or castoff.  That obviously would include the like of Orton as well, though I must admit he intrigues me because he really has seemed to turn it on a lot since landing in Denver, though I never thought he was that shabby in Chicago either when given the opportunity.  So maybe Orton would work out (though from the sound of that other topic on the board, maybe not), but regardless, I don't want to give up picks unless it's a Draft Day move next year like Spider was referring to...and even then I don't want it to be a reach, because we've still got plenty of holes to fill!