Final outcome of Vontae and Marshall trades

[Spider-Dan]

Now that the 2013 draft is over, we can see what the trades for these players have netted.

The first one is easy: Vontae Davis was turned into Jamar Taylor, straight up.  Given that they play the same position, it should be easy to evaluate the upcoming results.

The second is slightly more complicated: Brandon Marshall was turned into B.J. Cunningham, Michael Egnew, Dion Sims, and part of Will Davis.  The first of those picks couldn't even make the first cut, while the second has his foot out the door.  We'll see how Sims and Davis do.

Please keep in mind that both Vontae and Marshall were Ireland acquisitions.  "Miami needed to get rid of them anyway because they were problems" is just as much on Ireland as what he was able to get for them.

[Fau Teixeira]

Now that the 2013 draft is over, we can see what the trades for these players have netted.

The first one is easy: Vontae Davis was turned into Jamar Taylor, straight up.  Given that they play the same position, it should be easy to evaluate the upcoming results.

The second is slightly more complicated: Brandon Marshall was turned into B.J. Cunningham, Michael Egnew, Dion Sims, and part of Will Davis.  The first of those picks couldn't even make the first cut, while the second has his foot out the door.  We'll see how Sims and Davis do.

Please keep in mind that both Vontae and Marshall were Ireland acquisitions.  "Miami needed to get rid of them anyway because they were problems" is just as much on Ireland as what he was able to get for them.

you're assuming of course that ireland had 100% independence and responsibility under Parcells .. if he was nothing more than a glorified scout then his responsibility is low . if parcells wasn't involved at all then his responsibility is 100% for vontae and marshall .. if you know what the answer to that question is then you can probably 'lay blame'

[Spider-Dan]

Not sure how many seasons you can play the "Parcells made me do it" card for.

Vontae was selected in the 2009 draft; a draft in which, notably, Ireland has specifically complained that he was overruled on the next pick.  Seems to me that if Parcells was the one making the picks at that point, Ireland would have blamed the Vontae pick on Parcells (just as he did with White).

Marshall was acquired in the 2010 offseason.  Parcells wasn't even showing up to work by that point.

[Pappy13]

I'm not convinced just yet that Egnew is a bust. I've heard a lot about his blocking, but to me it sounds like most of his issue is between the ears. Some guys are just not ready for the NFL and need a year to figure that out. Maybe this year will be better. I'm anxious to see what he does in preseason. My guess is we will know by the end of preseason, he'll either have shown enough to stay with the team or he'll be cut, I don't think he'll be strung along again this year.

[Dave Gray]

I'm not convinced just yet that Egnew is a bust.

I think that I am.  He has the deer in headlights look that I don't think you can fix.  ....at least not with the same team.

[el diablo]

I think that I am.  He has the deer in headlights look that I don't think you can fix.  ....at least not with the same team.

I am too. When the TE coach & OC threaten to cut you on training camp, that's never good.

[Pappy13]

Vontae was selected in the 2009 draft; a draft in which, notably, Ireland has specifically complained that he was overruled on the next pick.  Seems to me that if Parcells was the one making the picks at that point, Ireland would have blamed the Vontae pick on Parcells (just as he did with White).

Not if he agreed with him on that pick or didn't think it was a bad pick. I think we fans have a tendency to believe that every time a guy is drafted and doesn't stay with Miami it was a bad pick, that's not necessarily the case. With Vontae, it obviously didn't work out like we would have liked, but we ended up getting something in the trade for him, so not necessarily a bad pick.

[Spider-Dan]

If you trade the best CB on your team (a first-round pick) for a 2nd rounder in the middle of training camp, and you use that 2nd rounder to draft his replacement, you likely either messed up on picking him or you messed up in trading him.

This recurring theme of getting rid of the few bright spots on a mediocre team better pay dividends soon.  You don't improve a below-average team by regularly discarding the few decent players you have.  These two trades are prime examples of Ireland turning firsts into seconds and turning seconds into thirds.  Now, if you can do something with those seconds and thirds, fine.  But so far, that has yet to be proven.

[Pappy13]

If you trade the best CB on your team (a first-round pick) for a 2nd rounder in the middle of training camp, and you use that 2nd rounder to draft his replacement, you likely either messed up on picking him or you messed up in trading him.

You are comparing trading a 1st round pick (your best CB) for a 2nd rounder to cutting a 2nd round pick that never showed even a glimmer of talent. To suggest those are similar situations is pure fantasy.

[Spider-Dan]

You are comparing trading a 1st round pick (your best CB) for a 2nd rounder to cutting a 2nd round pick that never showed even a glimmer of talent.

Where did I make this comparison?  I don't know what you're talking about.