What do you think? United States moving in the right or wrong direction?

[Spider-Dan]

I think Kim Kardashian (and Paris Hilton) are "role models" in the sense that they took what would normally be negative events (sex tape released) and instead used them as a springboard to build legitimate businesses.  Unlike many other entitled children of the obscenely rich that are content to simply leech their parents' money, they actually went out and made their own.  Good for them.

But anyone that looks at Honey Boo Boo as a role model would be just as dumb if her TV show didn't exist.

[bsmooth]

I think Kim Kardashian (and Paris Hilton) are "role models" in the sense that they took what would normally be negative events (sex tape released) and instead used them as a springboard to build legitimate businesses.  Unlike many other entitled children of the obscenely rich that are content to simply leech their parents' money, they actually went out and made their own.  Good for them.

But anyone that looks at Honey Boo Boo as a role model would be just as dumb if her TV show didn't exist.

The only reason Kim has a "business" is because of her notoriety. As son as her star fades, so will her "business". She is not a role model for a successful women for young girls to follow. She is the spitting image of her mother, who was a trophy wife, and cheated on her husband, and conceived a child by that affair.

[Spider-Dan]

Maybe you're right.  But at this point, her notoriety is no longer primarily from the sex tape, but from her TV show and her various products.  No, I don't think she's going to be the next Ralph Lauren or Estee Lauder... but she's shown a lot more individual drive to create a business and brand than many of her peers.  Credit where credit is due.

As far as a role model... many successful businesspeople live utterly deplorable personal lives, so that's nothing new.  What Kim and Paris have done (purely from a business standpoint) is, I think, a good example for many young women out there.  (Of course, the fact that they were already extremely rich didn't hurt.)  However, I wouldn't recommend that a young person copy their personal lives any more than I would recommend they copy, say, Steve Jobs'.

[pondwater]

but she's shown a lot more individual drive to create a business and brand than many of her peers.  Credit where credit is due.

LOL, that's funny. No, she's a no talent whore that some of the brain dead zombie citizens of the country idolize for some reason.

[bsmooth]

Maybe you're right.  But at this point, her notoriety is no longer primarily from the sex tape, but from her TV show and her various products.  No, I don't think she's going to be the next Ralph Lauren or Estee Lauder... but she's shown a lot more individual drive to create a business and brand than many of her peers.  Credit where credit is due.

As far as a role model... many successful businesspeople live utterly deplorable personal lives, so that's nothing new.  What Kim and Paris have done (purely from a business standpoint) is, I think, a good example for many young women out there.  (Of course, the fact that they were already extremely rich didn't hurt.)  However, I wouldn't recommend that a young person copy their personal lives any more than I would recommend they copy, say, Steve Jobs'.

She did not create a brand. She is famous for nothing more than going to clubs, being Paris's friend, and a sex tape. Because of her notoriety, her mother got a reality t.v. show made, which pushed the whole clans notoriety to a wider audience. Only after all this, did she start trying to make a brand. Oh yeah, let me not forget the multiple high viability relationships with professional athletes and musicians, and one sham marriage.
She has not created a "brand". She was created by the media and the brand came later, after investors hired consultants to create products for Kim to put her name on. She is now a model of success for both men and women. Her ilk represent what is wrong with this country...trying to get rich through notoriety as opposed to achieving actual success through hard work and innovation.

[Spider-Dan]

She did not create a brand. She is famous for nothing more than going to clubs, being Paris's friend, and a sex tape.

These are all things she shares in common with many people who did not leverage their fame/infamy into making a business.  How many celebrity sex tapes are out there?

Because of her notoriety, her mother got a reality t.v. show made, which pushed the whole clans notoriety to a wider audience. Only after all this, did she start trying to make a brand.

So we both agree that she made a brand, then.

Lots of people get famous off of BS nonsense.  Most of them do not make a successful business out of it.  That is my point.

[bsmooth]

These are all things she shares in common with many people who did not leverage their fame/infamy into making a business.  How many celebrity sex tapes are out there?
So we both agree that she made a brand, then.

Lots of people get famous off of BS nonsense.  Most of them do not make a successful business out of it.  That is my point.

Actually her mother made the Kardashian brand after their reality show started in 2007...right after the sex tape. She shares the "brand" with her sisters.
So I will hold my opinion that she has created nothing...her mother did, and she shares the "brand" with her whole family...under their mother's watchful eye.

[Spider-Dan]

Awfully convenient timing for "her mother" to secretly create the brand with the daughters' initials right after Kim started doing endorsements.  Also funny how the mother is not the one promoting the brand, has none-to-very-little public exposure as a designer for the brand, etc.  I also don't understand why she waited for Kim to make a sex tape to get started with all this.

I guess you're giving all the credit to Kris Jenner, then?  Is she the Tywin Lannister of the clan?  Does Conrad Hilton also get all the credit for Paris?