Player safety vs. Misdirection

[fyo]

They are treated differently when they drop back to pass.  Once they take off running, all bets are off.   

Although, to be fair, if a running back were to slide, the refs might just fall over from the shock and forget to whistle.

[Spider-Dan]

When an RB slides, it's almost always in a case where they are trying to run the clock.

I think the sideline question isn't really that complex.  Even if it's a non-QB, if they get hit out of bounds there's gonna be a flag, and when QBs run out of bounds, you only see a flag when the hit is egregiously late (like the Bengals did on Mahomes in the AFCCG last season).

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I think the NFL needs to pick a lane....

E.g. Either it okay to tackle a QB that is heading out of bounds (but isn't actually out of bounds) OR it is illegal for a QB who is heading for the sideline to stay in bounds.

If a QB is pretending to keep the ball but has gotten rid of it, it should be perfectly legal to hit the QB.  Don't want to get hit, don't pretend. 

[Dave Gray]

I think the NFL needs to pick a lane....

E.g. Either it okay to tackle a QB that is heading out of bounds (but isn't actually out of bounds) OR it is illegal for a QB who is heading for the sideline to stay in bounds.

If a QB is pretending to keep the ball but has gotten rid of it, it should be perfectly legal to hit the QB.  Don't want to get hit, don't pretend. 

This is where I'd like things to go as well.

If you're going to offer QBs protection from taking a hit, you can't punish any time a player is being deceptive about their taking a hit.

[Spider-Dan]

So you're saying every run play means it's open season on the QB?  I mean, it could be play action...

[pondwater]

So you're saying every run play means it's open season on the QB?  I mean, it could be play action...

If the QB has the ball it should be open season. It should be open season on anyone who has the ball. It's the defenders responsibility to figure out where the ball is.

[Spider-Dan]

Right, but if we say that deception eliminates the protection you get from not having the ball, and play action passes are allowed to exist, then any run play COULD be a play action pass, and defenders should murder the QB on every run play just in case.

All kidding aside, this deception angle is not workable.  Defenders are always tasked with determining who actually has the ball before they tackle someone; this is simply part of playing defense in tackle football.  Pump fakes exist, too... are we also going to say that the existence of really good pump fakes gives defenders license to smash a QB well after a pass is thrown?

[Dave Gray]

All kidding aside, this deception angle is not workable.  Defenders are always tasked with determining who actually has the ball before they tackle someone; this is simply part of playing defense in tackle football.  Pump fakes exist, too... are we also going to say that the existence of really good pump fakes gives defenders license to smash a QB well after a pass is thrown?

I take your point about it being a defender's job to judge who has the ball always and that's fair, but I don't understand your example.  In the case of a pump fake, the QB still has the ball, so it is open season on them.

[Spider-Dan]

If a QB is really good at pump fakes, and they actually threw the ball away but you thought they still had it (say, a short pass when you're coming from the opposite side), you can't just light them up anyway.  If you tackle a (skill position) player who doesn't have the ball, you're gonna get flagged in almost all scenarios.  That's just football.

[Brian Fein]

This happened yesterday on the first Buffalo drive - Kohou "shoved" Diggs out of bounds and got called.  At the time, I thought it was a soft shove but Diggs oversold it by tumbling into the bench and making a scene.

[Pappy13]

This happened yesterday on the first Buffalo drive - Kohou "shoved" Diggs out of bounds and got called.  At the time, I thought it was a soft shove but Diggs oversold it by tumbling into the bench and making a scene.

He shoved him after he was already out of bounds. There's no reason to put your hands on a player that's already out of bounds. None.

[Brian Fein]

I mean, sure, i agree, but in that instance, he was "shoved" as he was going out of bounds.  You're taught to finish the play.  Next time you don't shove him, he puts on the brakes and juke you and runs another 20 yards.  

In real time, its a fraction of a second between stepping out of bounds and touching him on the back.

Just thought that call was a little weak, but it doesn't really matter.

[Dave Gray]

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but is "shoving" out of bounds really a concern for injury?  It seems a little bit like the NFL wants to say they're concerned about injury, and also have sidelines right up on the edge of the field.

[Pappy13]

I mean, sure, i agree, but in that instance, he was "shoved" as he was going out of bounds.  You're taught to finish the play.  Next time you don't shove him, he puts on the brakes and juke you and runs another 20 yards.  

In real time, its a fraction of a second between stepping out of bounds and touching him on the back.

Just thought that call was a little weak, but it doesn't really matter.

You can give full effort right up to you see him go out of bounds but as soon as you see the player go out of bounds you have to let up. You can touch the player to maintain your balance or something, but that's not what happened. He gave him a pretty good shove, enough to the let guy know he was there and that was after he was already out of bounds. If all he does is run into him a bit and not shove him, it's not a penalty. You can say it's ticky tacky but when the refs allow that to go then bad things happen. He has to make an effort to let up and he didn't. Probably just a little frustration on his part, but still a penalty.