Dolphins reworking offensive line

[Matt McGuire]

A 40 time is a track race. It's not a measure of how players produce on a football field. It's nice to see who's the fastest (or who is out of shape), but for the most part it doesn't matter, especially for linemen. What about the guy rarely giving up a sack? Does that count somewhere? Don't place too much in combine stats. I've seen guys with much worse footwork wind up starting at left tackle. Hell, I've seen it a lot for the Bucs. I don't like drafting a defensive end first overall for a 3-4 scheme. How many premeire 3-4 ends can you name? Maybe it's because I don't like a 3-4 scheme, but I don't see using a first overall pick for that.

Chris Long is a better fit as a hybrid linebacker than as a base 4-3 end. He played 3 positions at Viginia at times (OLB, ILB, and 5 technique).

He shows good athleticism on film and a great motor. 4.71 40 and a 34 inch vertical is not shabby at all.

I don't put much in comibne stats at all but if we are talking about elite talent than the measurables have to be there...that's a part of being elite.

You want to talk Draft..I want to talk NFL,Yeah you can ramble on and on about players But even admitted you When I talk about whether a prospect can be elite or not I am evaluting their upside of their talent.

I don't care where they Go.....I want Know what they can do in the NFL......You can't predict that

If you can't predict then, than what is the point of evaluating prospects and their upside to determine value in the draft?

Haven't I told you what I think these players can do in the NFL? That is the whole point of evaluating players to determine what they can be in the NFL. Who are the sleepers? Who can bust? Who can be All-Pro? Who is going to be average?

How have I not answered those questions? When I talk about players thats all I do is talk about what I think they can be in the NFL.

[bsfins]

The Value of a player is different to every team.....Matt Ryan has Lot more Value to the Baltimore Ravens,then the New England Patriots....Even though the 7th overall pick is "Supposedly" more valuable than the 8th pick....

There is no Magic Pill to predict the Busts, There are the 2 Major theories of Need Vs Best player available.......Every team has their Way of Looking at different Players based on there system...

I don't KNOW why some guy's are rated better than any other guy...I've never claimed to....I always wondered after the Draft,(you hear in all the exit interviews). "He was the Number one guy on our Board,We had him ranked a little higher over this guy"   I know medical reports,Interviews,character checks,and of course their physical abilities all have an effect.....

Why did a lot of people think Ryan Leaf was A better 1st over all pick than Peyton Manning...The Colts made the right choice...(that time)

[Philly Fin Fan]

Matt and Lil B- Both of you need to chill out and relax. You guys have turned a nice thread into a back and forth argument. Please do not turn threads into your own little back and forth discussions.

And Matt- Please see CF Dolfan's post about stopping with the double and triple posting. There is no need to post three times in a row to respond to three separate issues. Do it all in one post, and hit edit if you need to add more.

[StL FinFan]

lol how am I not giving respect .... i'm sorry if I don't think your favorite football team will be good next year.

Lil B called me out. That's fine. Like I said, bring it on TDMMC Lil B. Let's talk some draft.

If you think I am such an idiot then you should have no problem making me look bad.

lol indeed.  You have a lot to learn, young man.  Re-read my post.  None of us think the Dolphins will be good next year.  I am hoping they can win 5-6 games.  I was talking about respecting other people's opinions and agruing without the name calling and belittling behavior.

[Sunstroke]

Well, this thread has definitely taken a bit of an antagonistic turn, hasn't it?

(Insert Rodney King voice) Can't we all just get along?

I'm all for people having conviction in their opinions, but until someone can show me proper infallible psychic credentials, we're all just taking educational "guesses" at what will transpire in the future. Matt thinks Chris Long is going to be Thor in cleats? Fukkin-A cool... I think Jake Long is going to be a Pro Bowl left tackle? Bring it on... Bottom line is that "everyone" with an opinion needs to deal with the fact that everyone else has an opinion, and not be so friggin' quick to go to war when their opinion doesn't parallel your own.

And if anyone thinks for a moment that this is directed at any one person, think again. It's directed at most of ya...

A 40 time is an indication of athletic ability and explosiveness.

You don't draft an offensive tackle that weighs 315 pounds and has questional athletic ability going into the combine and he doesn't answer those questions.

On the list of qualifications I look for in left tackles, their .40 time rates somewhere between "does he have two distinctly separated eyebrows" and "how neat does he keep his underwear drawer." I want my tackles long, strong and pissed off at the world. Jake fits that description. I want my left tackle to be able to play angry without losing his head and drawing cheap penalties...Jake has NFL vet savviness coming in the door.

I haven't said a single negative thing in any post about Chris Long... As far as I can tell, you may be right, and Thor could swing the hammer hard once he hits the NFL. They both could be superduperstars just waiting for their curtain call. I just happen to think Jake will be better for Miami than Chris, and nothing but watching their careers unfold is going to change my mind at this point.

[Matt McGuire]

Well I mean based on that description you gave Stroke then can you please iterate why Tony Mandarich was one of the biggest draft busts in NFL history?

[DolFan619]

The Miami Dolphins could draft Jake Long. It's not out of the realm of possibility. I wouldn't be dissappointed with the pick, although I've been adament in wanting the Dolphins to draft DE Chris Long.  I just have a feeling he's really going to be smething special.  Anyways, if you look at Bill Parcells track record of drafting offensive lineman in the first round of the NFL Draft.  It will show that history does not favor Jake Long.   Just follow me on this one, and I think you'll enjoy it.

Bill Parcells has been in the NFL a long time. He's been with the New York Giants, New England Patriots, New York Jets, and Dallas Cowboys. In all of the NFL Drafts he's been a part of, do you all know how many offensive lineman he's taken in the first round of a Draft? Just THREE offensive lineman. That's it, he's only selected an offensive lineman just three times in his coaching career in the first round. All of those selections happened when he was with the New York Giants as well.

- In the 1984 NFL Draft, the Giants selected OG William Roberts, Ohio State with 27th overall pick.   

- In the 1988 NFL Draft, the Giants selected OT Eric Moore, Indiana University with the 10th overall pick

- In the 1989 NFL Draft the Giants selected C Brian Williams, University of Minnesota with the 18th overall pick.

Bill Parcells hasn't drafted an offensive lineman in the first round of an NFL Draft since 1989.  He didn't take a single offensive lineman in the first round with the Patriots, Jets, or Cowboys.  Parcells mantra has always been to take the OL in the second round and below, put them in his system, coach em up, and make em great.  To his credit, it has been a pretty successful formula.  Look, I'm not saying Jake Long isn't a possibility for the Dolphins. They certainly could take him, but history is not on Jake's side.

[Matt McGuire]

The Value of a player is different to every team.....Matt Ryan has Lot more Value to the Baltimore Ravens,then the New England Patriots....Even though the 7th overall pick is "Supposedly" more valuable than the 8th pick....

There is no Magic Pill to predict the Busts, There are the 2 Major theories of Need Vs Best player available.......Every team has their Way of Looking at different Players based on there system...

I don't KNOW why some guy's are rated better than any other guy...I've never claimed to....I always wondered after the Draft,(you hear in all the exit interviews). "He was the Number one guy on our Board,We had him ranked a little higher over this guy"   I know medical reports,Interviews,character checks,and of course their physical abilities all have an effect.....

Why did a lot of people think Ryan Leaf was A better 1st over all pick than Peyton Manning...The Colts made the right choice...(that time)

Well what you are talking about Lil B is just that: draft theory. Assessing value vs. need and it is a never ending debate.

But the draft isn't perfect and it is absolutely impossible to never get picks wrong.

I think with every draft in the new era of scouting it is getting better and better because teams learn from their mistakes and the mistakes of other teams. They also learn why some players succeed and others don't.

Scouting is a very subjective thing. Everyone has their opinion on how will be good/bad/average/etc.

But hey what do i know probably another bullshit opinion that isn't in a magazine, newspaper, or on television.

[BigDaddyFin]

We're going to a full-blown 3-4, our defense was terrible last year.  Take Chris Long with the first pick.

[YoFuggedaboutit]

We're going to a full-blown 3-4, our defense was terrible last year.  Take Chris Long with the first pick.

They're saying Chris Long is not a good fit in the 3-4

[DolFan619]

They're saying Chris Long is not a good fit in the 3-4

  Since when?  Chris Long played in a 3-4 defense his entire career at Virginia.