Florida teacher fired over bikini photos

[Brian Fein]

^I hope you don't think of me as pussified, but I think that family values and morality are kind of good, and important for society.

Do you find that taking pictures in a bikini expresses poor family values and questionable morality?

[Guru-In-Vegas]

So is that to say that no one should ever hire relatively attractive females as teachers?  Only nasty, ugly old ladies, or men?  Because someone's bound to find a picture of a young hot girl in a bikini that she took at some point in her life.

Guru- what I meant by that statement was probably more eloquently expressed by Dave's statements.  What she does off the clock is her business, as long as she does her job from 9 to 5 (or 8 to 2:30, in this case).  I have a problem when people start bringing extra-curricular activities into question where they don't belong.

 I totally agree with that.  This is no different from women having to wear pilgrims clothes to the beach.  Its just pussiness that has been present in this country.

[stinkfish]

No, the more the better. I just hope that Guru doesn't actually mean that family values and moralty are bad things. Taken in the extreme, like what this may be, you know, relax. But for every day common decency, family values, and morality, the more the better, too.

[Brian Fein]

No, I think what is being called into question is not the value of morality, but instead, what is considered immoral.  Pictures in a bikini are not immoral to anyone I know.  I suspect this girl is a crappy teacher and is using the pictures as a scapegoat for denial to point to as a reason for her firing.  Unless she taught at, say, a religious school, that held some offense to her photos.  Then, I find that there's a problem.

I'll shut up now.

[Sunstroke]

I can't say anything about this specific case, but Ms. Dave is a Florida teacher, and she's told me in the past that they have to sign some kind of decency clause.

Should the day come when Ms Dave decides to moonlight for Smokin Em Charters, I sincerely hope you let us all know.

[CF DolFan]

No, I think what is being called into question is not the value of morality, but instead, what is considered immoral.  Pictures in a bikini are not immoral to anyone I know.  I suspect this girl is a crappy teacher and is using the pictures as a scapegoat for denial to point to as a reason for her firing.  Unless she taught at, say, a religious school, that held some offense to her photos.  Then, I find that there's a problem.

I'll shut up now.

If her students knew that she was moonlighting as a "bikini" model, it would certainly be a distraction.  A women was fired last year when it became public knowledge that she was doing this because the "teenage" boys couldn't get over it.  It was certainly a distraction.

I know in my job I can't moonlight without permission of the county as it might be a conflict or distraction to my day job. 

Of course non of this matters because she "missed more than 30 days" of work!!!

[Dave Gray]

Of course non of this matters because she "missed more than 30 days" of work!!!

This isn't necessarily enough to fire someone, if they aren't treating others the same way.  Everyone does or has done something at their job that is worthy of getting them fired, by the letter of the law.  It's the question of whether or not they would've still fired her, had she not had this job.

[bsmooth]

No, the more the better. I just hope that Guru doesn't actually mean that family values and moralty are bad things. Taken in the extreme, like what this may be, you know, relax. But for every day common decency, family values, and morality, the more the better, too.

Who decides? We have had many cases of religious and elected leaders ranting about "family values" and "morality" only to be caught with their hands in someone else's poon jar.

[CF DolFan]

Who decides? We have had many cases of religious and elected leaders ranting about "family values" and "morality" only to be caught with their hands in someone else's poon jar.

So because they have done wrong means there is no family values or morality line?   There are many more people who don't get caught doing something wrong.  Does that justify the line even more?   I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this. 

So ... just because some people have issues with immoral things yet they know its immoral, means we, as a society, should not have morals?  It seems to me that if someone who knows it's immoral but struggles anyway with it is its all the more reason to see the danger in it ...  whatever that "it" is. 

[Dave Gray]

There's definitely a correlation between fanaticism with family values and breaking those same values.  It can't be a coincidence that those most highly involved in wagging the finger at those doing wrong, are themselves, doing worse.

These aren't isolated incidents.  You hear about them all the time.

I'm okay that society has ethics and is governed by group morality, but I don't like when those things creep into law.  For example, I'm all against cheating, and am fine with how society views it, but I don't want it to be regulated with law.  I feel the same way about what most consider immoral acts: drugs, prostitution, pornography, homosexuality, etc.

I find the idea of "family values" to be a fairly empty one, especially from a political perspective.  What does it really mean?

[CF DolFan]

These aren't isolated incidents.  You hear about them all the time.

You better reign in Mrs. Dave (unless you are into that)  because it appears that every female teacher is sleeping with her students.   

[SCFinFan]

I can't say anything about this specific case, but Ms. Dave is a Florida teacher, and she's told me in the past that they have to sign some kind of decency clause. It seems really vague to me, and that you can pretty much be fired for whatever, as words like decency are up to interpretation.

Is it defined in the contract?

[Dave Gray]

^^ I don't know for certain, but I don't think that it is THAT clearly defined.

[run_to_win]

There's definitely a correlation between fanaticism with family values and breaking those same values.  It can't be a coincidence that those most highly involved in wagging the finger at those doing wrong, are themselves, doing worse.

These aren't isolated incidents.  You hear about them all the time.

You better reign in Mrs. Dave (unless you are into that)  because it appears that every female teacher is sleeping with her students.   

It's the hypocritical aspect of their actions that gets them the exposure.  For every moral leader you "hear about all the time", you don't hear about thousands who aren't being hypocritical.

On the other hand, there's nothing hypocritical about others breaking family values.  It's so common that it's simply not news worthy. 

What we see on TV and read in the newspaper is, almost by definition, NOT representative of everyday reality. 

[SCFinFan]

Dave, I think you found the key problem with a democratically run society with this post:

I'm okay that society has ethics and is governed by group morality, but I don't like when those things creep into law.  For example, I'm all against cheating, and am fine with how society views it, but I don't want it to be regulated with law.  I feel the same way about what most consider immoral acts: drugs, prostitution, pornography, homosexuality, etc.

The problem is, I guess, is there is no reason why a society shouldn't write into law those things which it finds either morally reprehensible, not in a democracy anyway. The communal will of the majority of voters is what rules.  And if they feel that something needs to be curtailed, for whatever reason, then so shall it be.