Prejudices and Perceptions

[ethurst2]

I was on the "Let's Talk Music...forum" when it took a strange, uneventful turn into race. I was kind of thrown by the fact that racism has come up in the very thing that I love and making a living in, which is music until I found out that there was another thread that I missed talking about Hurricane Katrina and the floods that are happening in Iowa. The thread was locked so I couldn't respond.

As an African-American male, I try not to be close minded. I've been blessed to travel over the world, visit and work with people in huts, work with Germans in the countryside, and be on UN committees that had one guy talking Russian and the other guy talking Persian.

Now I come from a poor background, I've never shuffled my feet to anything and I've always carried myself with dignity with a responsibility to many people.

I've been asked weird things about my race and makeup. An Arkansas banker in a small town asked me one time why were all black people on welfare and I laughed. He simply didn't know some things so this was my chance to share some knowledge.

We are suppose to clarify issues but please, lets not kill people and doom them to hell. I find nothing wrong about what D5499 said and here's why .

Personally, my father ran Liberty City through numbers rackets and drugs and I hated every minute of it. I saw dreams dashed and killed and agony in Liberty City. It's all because most of the people I knew were close minded and thought that Liberty City was the only thing that ever existed. Few dared to even think of traveling the world and even dealing with people different from them.

If D5499 is a cop, then he must see things on the front end that we don't. Not every white cop is a racist and not every black man is a deadbeat dad regardless of what Obama says. Our hope should be that when D5499, is faced with an issue, whether it be domestic violence, dealing with people of another race or gangs is that he has the wisdom to do the right thing at the moment despite the odds of even him getting killed.

If you are on the front line of anything dealing with it day to day, then you have first hand knowledge in it. 

There have been times on this forum which I stated certain things about the government and how it operates and people have said "Bullshit!". Well, I was into Intel in the Air Force and I dealt with some unbelievable stuff everyday that the general population doesn't know about. Does that make me anti-government? No, because there are good people in government trying to do an honest job.

I've sat down with known Klan members in Arkansas and actually had dialogue with them. I could have been mad but on the other side of the spectrum, I remember reading about Black people going into Russia and advising the Czars or blacks out West building towns of freedom whereas in the South they were fighting for freedom. So therefore, any situation that presented itself, I knew I could handle because I knew me and some history that was hidden. I prepared myself for those moments that could have been volatile.

For two years, I had coffee frequently with a man that was racist. He had never wanted to interact with a black person but we found something in common. Sports.  He even confided in me that he had no access to dealing with people of other cultures. He was cut off from it and could only go by what the T.V. and the news said. We're good friends now because I realized that behind everyones attempt to wear a mask, there is a common ground in which a person wants to be understood.

It's good to ask questons, challenge, see what someone different than you is thinking about. That's progress. Our leaders, black or white can't do it but we can.

I will say this and I know it's controversial. If we as African-Americans don't raise our conscious level spiritually then in 50 years we will cease to exist as a race of people in the United States of America. We would have destroyed ourselves with no help from anybody. We are supposed to be just like everyone else, looking towards and participating in a global world. The internet has done what the Emancipation proclamation did not do, what the civil rights movement didn't do. It has brought us face to face with people that we were told, hated us. So now, we can ask them about their fears, what shaped them, why they feel the way that they do. We can share experiences (bad or good) ask the tough questions. this is why God brought the internet in at a time when it was needed. It's was to bridge us to a common understanding of each other.

It's a misfortune that the people of Iowa are going through the same thing that the Katrina victims are going through only via a flood. This case is not one of black or white but one of sorrow. A loss of a home or possessions is a lost regardless of how you look at it and there are people of all cultures in Iowa that are suffering. Maybe not to the degree as far as population as compared to New Orleans but suffering is suffering.

So when the statement was made of "we take care of our own" I believe that it was a person talking about how their community will overcome this tragedy.

The key is integrity and honesty. We are carrying neurosis that we should not carry. Yes, there are racists, black and white but they are playing a role to get people to evolve OUT of racism. Some people perceive that when a black person is mad, he or she hates all white people and when a white person doesn't respond to anyone that they are racist. You know, they could be having a bad day.

Each community has it's issues. from the suburbs of Vail to the streets of Washington, no one is immune from this. There's a two front war going on that affects all cultures and that's for your mind and allegiance of your soul to something that was not made for you in the first place.

Jtex says some crazy stuff and got blasted just two days ago. He had a "senior moment". When I read his rant, I was appalled but I had to check myself because deep inside, he's probably different but never had the platform to discuss things. This forum could be his own self-healing. He's probably reading this saying f---you ethurst but that's good.

But Jtex and I have something in common and that is this forum. Who knows? maybe I'll get to meet him and he can tell me that I'm full of s*&* and we can laugh and have a beer.

Bottom line is that it's time to evolve.

So even if it hurts...lets see the big picture which is love and understanding.

[Guru-In-Vegas]

Well, you're a nicer person than most.  I find it disgusting that people hate others over something as (literally) superficial as skin color.  I'm like Buddhagirl, the moment I learn a person is racist I could give a fuck about associating or communicating with them.  I'm sorry but not many racists are like your racist friend that are open to have open and civil dialogue let alone change their views.  I wouldn't be friends with a Nazi, why would I care to have a racist "accept" me.  As far as I'm concerned, they could go on forever with their dumbfuck views as its not going to be me to suffer a lifetime of ignorant beliefs.

I've mentioned in other threads that racism is racism, regardless of who the victim is.  Either way its a destructive and divisive mentality that keeps us as a society stuck in the fucking 1800's. 

I DO see what Defense said as wrong.  "Bobbing your head from side to side"?  "Everyone is racist".  I find it odd that you give him a pass for "seeing it from the front lines".  So with that mentality, it is ok to view all muslims as terrorists first humans second as we've suffered some tragic events at the hands a few. 

[landlocked]

I think that ethurst's post is one of the most intelligent,well thought out things I've ever read on this board.E, you are absolutely right,when people of different cultures and back grounds get a chance to just talk and get to know one another on a personal basis,we find we have much more in common than we ever thought.We cannot go through life with our little pre-conceived notions and just write other people off at the first thing they do that offends us.If we,as fallible human beings.can't learn that people do come with baggage and will piss us off from time to time then we close any chance of dialogue and the chance to learn from one another.We must be more mature and thick skinned than that.When I used to deliver to Kroger stores there were alot of times say in Memphis,for example,that I would be the only white guy in the store.And yes,I was treated like crap from a few employees(while they were friendly as heck to everyone else).Did I get mad or bitter or write them off as racist?No,because I don't know what their background or life experiences were that made them not like me just because I was white.Maybe someone treated that person bad.They had no way of knowing about me,either.They didn't know that after my dad left us that I lived right beside the meanest projects in Tampa when I was a kid,and yes I got chased home from school and even beat up a time or two,but even then,I knew that that was just the way it was,and some of those guys eventually became my friends.Point is,I do agree with defense,we all harbor some prejudice of some kind,no matter how small,and if anyone tells you different they are lying,we all have had moments in our lives that we are not terribly proud of.It is my opinion that most people that politically grandstand and are so busy telling others about their high ideals about some perfect way of viewing the world have never been out in the world.Down to it's ugliest depths and seen firsthand the way folks treat one another.The real key is(as ethurst stated far more eloquently than me)is learning to put ones self on the back burner and open communication so we can find why each other thinks or feels a certain way.Without giving of one's self and putting our egos aside so we can connect...we would all be ignorant.

[run_to_win]

"Racist" is such an over-used term that it hardly means much anymore.  There was a time when the term caused gasps of horror.  It was a conversation/argument stopper, a trump card.  Once used the recipient had no defense. 

Now it's more likely to cause people to roll their eyes and chuckle.  It still stops the conversation, but only because there's no use in continuing with someone who vehementley believes, "Say only positive things or you're a racist."

Anyone non-minority who says anything disparaging about a minority, no matter how accurate in their experience, is now a racist.  Even when they're wrong or misinformed, they can't just be wrong or misinformed - they're a racist.  Once a person applies the label they feel entitled to close their minds as to not let any new information in.

Like it or not, Katrina was turned into an issue of race.  Things went badly for a city that "predominantly happens to be black".  Had local/state govenment wanted to purposely make the situation as bad as possible at the expense of their own constituents they wouldn't have done much differently.

In the flood thread it was generally agreed upon that New Orleans was, and still is, a corrupt and crime ridden city.  Then someone speaks frankly and honestly about his first hand experiences dealing with those specific people and he's a racist?   

[Defense54]

Well, you're a nicer person than most.  I find it disgusting that people hate others over something as (literally) superficial as skin color.  I'm like Buddhagirl, the moment I learn a person is racist I could give a fuck about associating or communicating with them.  I'm sorry but not many racists are like your racist friend that are open to have open and civil dialogue let alone change their views.  I wouldn't be friends with a Nazi, why would I care to have a racist "accept" me.  As far as I'm concerned, they could go on forever with their dumbfuck views as its not going to be me to suffer a lifetime of ignorant beliefs.

I've mentioned in other threads that racism is racism, regardless of who the victim is.  Either way its a destructive and divisive mentality that keeps us as a society stuck in the fucking 1800's. 

I DO see what Defense said as wrong.  "Bobbing your head from side to side"?  "Everyone is racist".  I find it odd that you give him a pass for "seeing it from the front lines".  So with that mentality, it is ok to view all muslims as terrorists first humans second as we've suffered some tragic events at the hands a few. 

You are not at all like BuddAgirl for the very fact.......you are not Black.    You are just not a very intelligent person and look for anything to stick poke people about. Try to look past your own agenda and actually see what Ethurst is trying to say.

Ethurst ........you are a valuable member here and we are lucky to have you.

This forum could be his own self-healing.

I found that statement particularly interesting and perhaps it applies to me as well. Sometimes its best to talk about stuff rather then keep it bottled up inside.

[JVides]

Well, you're a nicer person than most. 

From Ethurst's post, I got that he's more open to learning than most, and that's a great thing.  The person who says "I'm no longer dealing with you because you'e -----" is closing his/her mind to the world and also passing up a chance to effect change.

I know people who are racist in the truest form of the word, and through limited dealings, try to get at the source of their racism.  How else can you change their views but to challenge the core beliefs?

[MaineDolFan]

Well, you're a nicer person than most.  I find it disgusting that people hate others over something as (literally) superficial as skin color.

Huge mispersepection.  I don't think it has to do with skin color, rather actions.  In general, a black man from Queens acts and carries himself differently than a white farmer from Iowa.  True enough, yes?  Automatically I am sure a lot of people are thinking a thug from the streets of Queens and a down home boy on a tractor with a cowboy hat. 

Let's say that black man from Queens has his PhD in Social Sciences and is a professor at NYU.  The farmer is a 19 year old that works the fields during the day and is part of an underground rap movement at night. 

That black man and white man are still different in cultural ways.  That difference goes well past and beyond skin color.  People are generally afraid of things that are unknown to them.  Why do you think folks are scared of the dark? 

I am mixed race and you would never know it from looking at me.  In the 1920's I would have had zero problems "passing" for a white man.  I was raised through the eyes of two cultural settings: strong African values and strong Irish values.  For the most part I was rejected by my peers while growing up in Oakland.  I wasn't black enough and I wasn't white enough to fit in on one side or the other. 

Thankfully even some kids have a way of looking past everything and just seeing the person.  My group of friends, while small, was loyal.

The military was a place that I experienced almost unbearable racism, especially in boot camp.  The black kids generally hated the white kids.  The white kids hated the black kids.  The Latino kids, grossly out numbered by the white and black kids, gravitated to the black kids.  I was treated pretty shitty for the first couple weeks of boot until one morning.  I'll never forget it.

We had rooms at Fort Dix, four to a room.  It was a Sunday morning after church and I was polishing my boots and getting ready for inspection.  One of the black guys that had been especially mean to me over the first four weeks came into my room and asked a question.  His name is Mark Snowden, I don't think I'll ever forget him.  While talking to me he noticed a picture in my locker, it was me and my grandmother.  "Hey, who is the sister in the picture with you?" he asked.

I told him that was my gram.  She married into the family?  No.  I'm adopted?  No.  You mean that is my real father's mother?  Yes.  All the sudden he, and a group of others, treated me differently.  A little better.

And why?  I hadn't changed.  I acted the same.  My skin didn't darken over night.

I think that Mark simply knew at that point that I had an idea of who he was in a way.  He must have said something to a couple of his buddies.

I don't think Mark was racist.  I think he just assumed I was a corn-fed white boy from the fields of Maine and that his experiences with white people, and stories he heard, weren't all that positive.  Rather than giving me a chance he went into protection mode.

It's not racism so much as a prejudice.  A, like it or not, every person on this board has a prejudice against something.  Maybe it's the homeless person that could just get a job and stop begging.  Maybe it's that stupid teenager that needs to stop skateboarding in your parking lot.  Maybe it's that weird white guy walking in front of you with chains dangling from his pants and tattoos on his neck.  Maybe it's that black man across the street with headphones on.  Maybe it's that old lady driving in front of you at 10 mph under the posted 25 mph speed limit.

Prejudices are a funny thing.  They are easily overcome through education.  But we all have them and the majority of the time they have almost nothing to do with race.

[simeon]

First I would like to applaud you on such a great post and very important issue. It does bewilder me why racism still exist in todays culture, this kind of hatred has fueled man heart for a long time. I believe most of us white people see racist like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson who believe they are crowned speakers for the black community, these men are dividers and are not uniter's, then we can see Obama's pastor who has been teaching hate and racism for a very long time. I really believe God has created us all equally, He loves us all the same, I have seen things with my eyes also that was wrong, I myself have said racist things in the past. I hate racism and unfortunately it is very much alive in the world, look at the groups of the kkk and the Black Panthers. I agree with you, all of us need to find a common ground and unite together. I have ministered with black women and men, these are my brothers and sisters. Growing up in Southern Florida in the 60's and 70's my best friend was black, I remember him coming over to my house only to have my brothers threaten him and chase him away calling him the n word, I also remember going to his house and his family questioning him as to why he has a honky in their house. That moment happened so long ago, but yet I remember it just like yesterday.

[bsmooth]

Huge mispersepection.  I don't think it has to do with skin color, rather actions.  In general, a black man from Queens acts and carries himself differently than a white farmer from Iowa.  True enough, yes?  Automatically I am sure a lot of people are thinking a thug from the streets of Queens and a down home boy on a tractor with a cowboy hat. 

Let's say that black man from Queens has his PhD in Social Sciences and is a professor at NYU.  The farmer is a 19 year old that works the fields during the day and is part of an underground rap movement at night. 

That black man and white man are still different in cultural ways.  That difference goes well past and beyond skin color.  People are generally afraid of things that are unknown to them.  Why do you think folks are scared of the dark? 

I am mixed race and you would never know it from looking at me.  In the 1920's I would have had zero problems "passing" for a white man.  I was raised through the eyes of two cultural settings: strong African values and strong Irish values.  For the most part I was rejected by my peers while growing up in Oakland.  I wasn't black enough and I wasn't white enough to fit in on one side or the other. 

Thankfully even some kids have a way of looking past everything and just seeing the person.  My group of friends, while small, was loyal.

The military was a place that I experienced almost unbearable racism, especially in boot camp.  The black kids generally hated the white kids.  The white kids hated the black kids.  The Latino kids, grossly out numbered by the white and black kids, gravitated to the black kids.  I was treated pretty shitty for the first couple weeks of boot until one morning.  I'll never forget it.

We had rooms at Fort Dix, four to a room.  It was a Sunday morning after church and I was polishing my boots and getting ready for inspection.  One of the black guys that had been especially mean to me over the first four weeks came into my room and asked a question.  His name is Mark Snowden, I don't think I'll ever forget him.  While talking to me he noticed a picture in my locker, it was me and my grandmother.  "Hey, who is the sister in the picture with you?" he asked.

I told him that was my gram.  She married into the family?  No.  I'm adopted?  No.  You mean that is my real father's mother?  Yes.  All the sudden he, and a group of others, treated me differently.  A little better.

And why?  I hadn't changed.  I acted the same.  My skin didn't darken over night.

I think that Mark simply knew at that point that I had an idea of who he was in a way.  He must have said something to a couple of his buddies.

I don't think Mark was racist.  I think he just assumed I was a corn-fed white boy from the fields of Maine and that his experiences with white people, and stories he heard, weren't all that positive.  Rather than giving me a chance he went into protection mode.

It's not racism so much as a prejudice.  A, like it or not, every person on this board has a prejudice against something.  Maybe it's the homeless person that could just get a job and stop begging.  Maybe it's that stupid teenager that needs to stop skateboarding in your parking lot.  Maybe it's that weird white guy walking in front of you with chains dangling from his pants and tattoos on his neck.  Maybe it's that black man across the street with headphones on.  Maybe it's that old lady driving in front of you at 10 mph under the posted 25 mph speed limit.

Prejudices are a funny thing.  They are easily overcome through education.  But we all have them and the majority of the time they have almost nothing to do with race.

Its funny you bring this up as I did not meet my first black person until I went to basic training. Also we had a small race war in AIT as a group of black and white soldiers did not get along and were forcing people to pick sides, it made it very difficult for those of us who stayed in the middle.
I would say the word to best describe Defense is jaded. He is basing his judgements on his experiences much like those of us who deployed use the term Haji when talking about the bastards that tried to kill us. Once he gets out of the job and has time to let those experiences settle and be replaced by others will be the true test as to wether he is a bigot or not.  My father has changed considerably in the years after he was medically retired from the force and his views which were very similiar to Defense's have softened some over time.

[SportsChick]

To quote the musical Avenue Q "everyone's a little bit racist"

[JVides]

To quote the musical Avenue Q "everyone's a little bit racist"

Everyone also thinks they're better than someone else (a member of some group or another simply because they're a member of that group).  It may not be racist, but it's still petty and dumb and all the things racism is (just on a different scale).

[SportsChick]

The song, itself is too funny, while at the same time being very true.

I grew up in a white white white area. I am white. I knew exactly one black girl in elementary school. When I moved down here, well it was a bit of culture shock, but it was so easy to see how groups, for the most part, separated themselves.

I was in theater so we had a pretty diverse crowd going on, but there seemed to be a pretty cut and dry line through high school.

I don't get it personally. Then again, I don't get homophobia either. People are people and we're all humans. I guess I don't understand the hate.

[Defense54]

To quote the musical Avenue Q "everyone's a little bit racist"

Except Vegas........he's perfect ya know........

[Defense54]

  I guess I don't understand the hate.

All excellent points in all the posts above. But one thing let me assure you.......call me jaded, racist , what have you......there is NO hate in my heart. I spend alot of time with black families and groups and while I might have my preconceived notions ......My #1 agenda everyday is to help them. And when I'm told I have , no paycheck in the world can match that feeling. Thats about as honest as I can get.

Also my opinions were directed at the people of the City of New Orleans.  Like Maine said........Its a matter of actions not Color. From what I've seen ,and heard about and those that I have dealt with personally here from N. O. The actions back up what I have said. 

[run_to_win]

I don't think it has to do with skin color, rather actions.

Very true.  Unfortunately, when you judge people by their actions people tend to confuse that with racism.

We had rooms at Fort Dix, four to a room.  It was a Sunday morning after church and I was polishing my boots and getting ready for inspection.  One of the black guys that had been especially mean to me over the first four weeks came into my room and asked a question.  His name is Mark Snowden, I don't think I'll ever forget him.  While talking to me he noticed a picture in my locker, it was me and my grandmother.  "Hey, who is the sister in the picture with you?" he asked.

I told him that was my gram.  She married into the family?  No.  I'm adopted?  No.  You mean that is my real father's mother?  Yes.  All the sudden he, and a group of others, treated me differently.  A little better.

And why?  I hadn't changed.  I acted the same.  My skin didn't darken over night.

I think that Mark simply knew at that point that I had an idea of who he was in a way.  He must have said something to a couple of his buddies.

I don't think Mark was racist.

I'm sorry but it sounds like he was the definition of racist.