Teacher burns cross on student's arm

[Sunstroke]

Do I see a cross when I want too? Yes but it would not have been "my" first choice.  I thought it was more of several a random marks.

I thought it looked more like a midget wearing safety goggles, eating ice cream

...either that or a cross.

[MaineDolFan]

You're talking about going in and beating up a teacher and going to jail for a non-harmful, temporary mark on a kid's arm.  I just don't think it's a big deal.

Maybe I'm under-reacting.

When I made that statement I was also under the assumption that the cross had been actually burned into the arm of the child.  I'm funny like that, I go by the title of the thread.

So, yes.  Using something hot enough to burn skin - a teacher BURNS something into my child's skin and they will have me to deal with under very unpleasant circumstances.  If a child is in a public school system and is assaulted by a teacher - who is protecting that child?  Not the school.  Certainly not the teacher.

It would take a lot to provoke me into violence.  I have trained my whole life to avoid it.  I am all about defense.  You want to set me off, harm my child.  I stand by those words and always will.  You won't find many parents that do not stand by those words.

The actual mark wasn't so much of a burn so my real life reaction would be a little different.  That doesn't change the fact - that teacher doesn't need to lay a hand on my child.

And Run - you are being utterly ridiculous making a correlation between "dirty britches" (what are you, anyway?  65 years old?) and a mark on a kid's arm that takes a couple of months to go away.  You parent the way you deem fit, I'll do the same.  I shouldn't expect anything less, you are the king of the "huh?" comments.  Because a child in a science class having something marked on their arm and a dirty pair of pants are the same...how?  In what world?  Did daycare providers start teaching science to toddlers while changing diapers?  Get real.

And, honestly, Dave -- try HAVING a child before telling someone that they are being over protective.  Because in this case you really need to know what you are talking about before putting that assumption on someone.  You need to have experience with waking up at 2am to find your two month old throwing up everywhere and a 104 degree fever.  Or day care calling and saying that your 9 month old is struggling to breathe and they just called the rescue.  Or something as simple as every day "did she get enough to eat today" worries.  Your life is spent worrying about that child.  Are they healthy?  Are they happy?  Are they growing at the right right?  Is their nutrition where it should be?  Is this vaccine really something she needs?  Are we doing the right thing by using a day care a couple days a week?  Am I spending enough time to grow her intellect and imagination?  Is she learning good social skills?  Are you doing everything that you can to set them up for life success?  Are you doing all you can to make sure that they are well adjusted?  That doesn't even get into the things you worry about with the future and money.

If you don't have a child you have no right to tell someone who does what is over reacting and what isn't.  It's not your child.  That is a pretty big liberty to take.

My child.  Do not put a mark on her arm that requires a couple months to heal.  End of story.

[Phishfan]

Maine, I am not sure about your point of not having children making you not know how to act. I see parents all the time that I think do wrong, but it is on the other end of the scale. I don't have kids but I know when one is allowed to run free and not get any sort of direction or discipline. Just because I don't have a child doesn't mean I (or anyone else) is ignorant. Do I think you are overreacting. Tough to say. This thing is basically harmless but I wouldn't want my child forced to do it. If they volunteer, who gives a shit. It is going away. If anything I think the fact you do have a child may have jaded your view a bit. You automatically have taken this to worst case scenario, when really it is no worse than a henna tattoo. It isn't permanent and it was apparently painless. I initially took the title of the thread the same way. I was picturing physical burns with permanent scarring (I have watched people brand themselves so I know the sight and smell I pictured) but this just wasn't the case.

[MaineDolFan]

Phish - I think I am being clear.  If it's my child that has come home with a mark on their arm and I get upset about my child...believe it or not there isn't room to debate whether I am over reacting or not.  It's not your child.  It's not Dave's.  It's not Run's.  It's not Santa Claus'.  It's my child. 

Entitlement doesn't stop at material things, people seem to think it's okay to walk around placing judgement upon other people in circumstances that they get snap shots of.  It's easy to judge from afar. 

I agree that in today's world people are ultra sensitive about things, perhaps too sensitive.  And I also agree that people are also WAY too judgemental about things in this society as well -- and many times judging things that they have zero experience in.

Unless you have a child and understand the constant worry that goes along with having one you can't understand.  Just like a man can't understand what it's like to be a woman or a woman to be a man.  There are things that you simply have to experience to "get."  Sorry if that rubs you, or anyone else, the wrong way.  It's true. 

I'm not saying everyone needs to have children to have opinions.  What I AM saying is that you need to have children to understand my position on mine.  It's a members only club in that regard.

And people keep going back to "pain."  Do a little research on the equipment that was used.  It is described as "not safe for use on skin" and that each mark feels like a strong burst of static electricity.  Once stings a little.  I'm looking at that mark and I see, what?  30-40 seperate marks?  Is that the same as "pain?"  No.  Was it nessassary to do?  NO. 

I'm not sure what is so hard to understand when it comes to keeping your hands to yourself and people's desires to have their space. 

[Sunstroke]

My child.  Do not put a mark on her arm that requires a couple months to heal.  End of story.

I'd love to see a science teacher try putting a mark like that on the Abbiechrist...he'd have a sudden compulsion to fling himself off the roof or something.

[Phishfan]

..believe it or not there isn't room to debate whether I am over reacting or not.  It's not your child.  It's not Dave's.  It's not Run's.  It's not Santa Claus'.  It's my child. 

Entitlement doesn't stop at material things, people seem to think it's okay to walk around placing judgement upon other people in circumstances that they get snap shots of.  It's easy to judge from afar. 

I get your point and agree that no student should be forced into this excersize. 30-40 pursts of static electricity mean little to nothing to me as long as the child volunteered. I don't have to have a child to take that position. These children are not going to be scarred emotionally or physically by this. If they were, then they have nore serious problems the parent needs to worry about.

I hope you don't take this too personally, but the quote I pulled out almost seems ultra possessive. It is probably me more than you on this one, but take this quote to an extreme and you can see how utterly rediculous it is. Let's say someone has a child and beats the shit our of them for having an accident in their pants. According to your quote the parent is entitled to do so and no childless person could have an opinion about it. I know this isn't where you are going with what you said, but please step back for a minute and see what words come out as a result for your love of Abby (I hope I remembered her name).

I am not trying to judge your position. I respect it and it is yours to have. I just think you feel that every person who has a child automatically feels the same way and that any person without a child is basically void of having any insight or perspective.

[MaineDolFan]

^^
Abby would put the Jedi mind trick on him.  The conversation with the EMT's would go like this...

"Professor Watershed, just so we're clear, you WANTED to put this engaged curling iron inside your anus?  Why?"

[MaineDolFan]

I get your point and agree that no student should be forced into this excersize. 30-40 pursts of static electricity mean little to nothing to me as long as the child volunteered. I don't have to have a child to take that position. These children are not going to be scarred emotionally or physically by this. If they were, then they have nore serious problems the parent needs to worry about.

You're right.

Hey, Abby comes home with that mark and tells me that she asked to do it I am probably still making a call just to find out what was used and how long the mark will be there.  She is her own person and can make decisions like that.  I do have trust in teachers to not put her in harm's way. 

My stance is that is the teacher is just running around the class going "watch this" without really asking "who wants to do this?" 

Abby raises her hand and says "I will, bring it on!"  I'm good with that.  I hope that takes care of a little of the confusion.

My whole beaf initially was that I thought it was a real burn.  And then my other stance is against a teacher using this as part of a lesson that everyone must parttake in, like it or not. 

Even at 2, Abby is very much her own person and her mother and I respect her as an individual.  I won't second guess her unless it's really needed.  I am a free thinking individual and I'm raising Abby to be the same.  I see where you are at on this one and agree.  I think there might be a little confusion as to where my stance is at.

I hope that clarifies my position a little?  I know it seems like a hard position and in some ways it is, but it is also based on circumstance.

[simeon]

Wow this is getting pretty heated now it includes curling irons. Majority of times I agree with Maine, but this is not one of them. I agree that the teacher had no right to mark any childs arm, there must be better ways to demonstrate this machine. I disagree about the fact you need to have children to form a real opinion about what is wrong or right. I also disagree about him getting violent with the teacher, as marking the child is not illegal but assault and battery is. I don't think I would have filed a lawsuit but I would go to every school board meeting demanding that he be fired. As a parent I understand you want to protect your child, and you want whats best for them, but committing a crime to do it is not the best way to teach your kids.
This guy lost his job, isn't that punishment enough ?

[MaineDolFan]

Wow this is getting pretty heated now it includes curling irons. Majority of times I agree with Maine, but this is not one of them. I agree that the teacher had no right to mark any childs arm, there must be better ways to demonstrate this machine. I disagree about the fact you need to have children to form a real opinion about what is wrong or right. I also disagree about him getting violent with the teacher, as marking the child is not illegal but assault and battery is. I don't think I would have filed a lawsuit but I would go to every school board meeting demanding that he be fired. As a parent I understand you want to protect your child, and you want whats best for them, but committing a crime to do it is not the best way to teach your kids.
This guy lost his job, isn't that punishment enough ?

Dude - try reading my posts.  You quite obviously have not because you are stating the direct opposite of everything that I have said.

[run_to_win]

Touch my kid, ever, and I'm going to jail for a very long time.

Dave, all due respect, I think that you would take a vastly different stance if you had a child.  Hands on learning is fine.  Putting your hands on someone else's child isn't,

Again - this teacher has zero right to touch a child.  He overstepped in a massive way

For me, simply put, I don't want anyone touching my child.

I don't believe that not wanting a teacher to touch my child is 'over-reacting' in any sense of the word.

Yeah, I'm the one being utterly ridiculous. 

And Run - you are being utterly ridiculous making a correlation between "dirty britches" (what are you, anyway?  65 years old?) and a mark on a kid's arm that takes a couple of months to go away.  You parent the way you deem fit, I'll do the same.  I shouldn't expect anything less, you are the king of the "huh?" comments.  Because a child in a science class having something marked on their arm and a dirty pair of pants are the same...how?  In what world?  Did daycare providers start teaching science to toddlers while changing diapers?  Get real.

I'm old enough to focus on the point and not make a big deal about "dirty britches" vs "poopy pants" or "soiled diaper".  I'm also old enough to not say "touch" when I mean "harm.

Care-providers and school officials are going to have to touch your child to do their jobs.

After crappy administrators, which is more redundant than you'd think, overprotective parents are a teacher's worst nightmare.

[run_to_win]

Hey, Abby comes home with that mark and tells me that she asked to do it I am probably still making a call just to find out what was used and how long the mark will be there.  She is her own person and can make decisions like that.  I do have trust in teachers to not put her in harm's way.

[MaineDolFan]

Care-providers and school officials are going to have to touch your child to do their jobs.

After crappy administrators, which is more redundant than you'd think, overprotective parents are a teacher's worst nightmare.

To both statements above - believe it or not, I probably have a little more experience with this than you.  I lived it being the son of a life long educator and coach.  From being called at home because parent 'a' didn't agree with a grade to being yelled at because parent 'b's' son isn't getting enough playing time, I've seen it all.  The phenomenon of blaming teachers for everything didn't start last year.

He gets my point and can see the direction and stance I have been taking all along!  Dancing in the streets ensues!

[Dave Gray]

Damn Maine....you're getting a tad defensive.

I made the statement that perhaps you were over-reactive regarding going to jail for beating up a teacher who marked the kid's arm.  I don't think it's my job to assume that you hadn't real the article attached, after 7 pages of dialog, and only skimmed the thread title.

I've been trying to be respectful and choose my words carefully, but you're making it hard to have a conversation with you.  It's only a matter of time before you flip out, if we don't agree.

[MaineDolFan]

^If you say so, slick.  Dave, you don't know me.  You've never spoken to me.  I don't "flip out."  This is a conversation, sometimes levels of communication go beyond someone's comfort zone.  That doesn't mean that I am "making it hard to do."

I believe that my being defensive in this case is a little warranted.  I also believe that you aren't really understanding what I am saying.  I'll make it crystal clear:

If a teacher touched my daughter in an inappropriate way, or physically harmed her - yes.  At that point he would have a very ticked off me to deal with and it wouldn't be pretty.

My initial response to this thread was that of the title: teacher BURNS item into a child's arm.

I also said that if Abby had raised her hand and said "hey, I'll try that" - that's up for her to decide.  I'm not going to second guess my child.  I might call the teacher and ask about the equipment that was used, but that's about it.

This thread is full of hyptotheticals, yes?  I said that, hypothetically, if a teacher harmed my child there would be hell to pay.  I was told that I was over reacting.  I don't feel that anyone has the cause to tell me that is the case.

I never said that under the circumstances of what happened I would march into the school and take the teacher to task. I was using a hypothetical situation of a teacher BURNING items into a student's arm.

A teacher shouldn't be touching a student without their permission.  That's the long and short of it.  If the student in question agreed to do this, we're wasting a lot of time debating something that shouldn't be debated.  If the teacher required all students in his class to do this as part of a lesson, that's another story.

So to be clear, and not be accused of "flipping out", I'll say again: my stance on confronting a teacher physically would be reserved to a situation where that teacher harmed my child.

Please feel free to re-read my posts.