Marlins - attendance - MLB in Florida and a question:

[Sunstroke]

I think it would be in the best long-term interests of the franchise if they aggressively pursued the "father bringing kids" demographic. Free tickets on certain days, hot dog/ice cream specials for kids, promotions where the kids run the bases, etc... All of that, if done consistently for the next 15-20 years, profit-be-damned, is what can turn this into a baseball market. Kids need to grow up knowing that when thay want to have fun, they go see the Marlins. They need to know that it is "normal" to go to a game every couple of weeks or so, instead of once per season. These kids need to know this so that they understand that part of their job, once they grow up and become dads themselves, is to take their kids to the ballgame.

And we, as fans, need to understand that the type of fan-loyalty that is present in some of these older franchises doesn't happen in one generation. It has to carry over, and over, and over, so the local baseball team is as much a part of our world as going to the movies or Mickey D's.

[SportsChick]

Sunday is family fun day and all kids under 12 can run the bases after the game - Marlins have been doing that for years.

[MaineDolFan]

Tickets: the cheapest seats in the house are $12 x3 = $36
Parking: $10
3 Hot Dogs: $15
3 Cokes: $12
2 Ice creams: $10

You just spent $83 to take your 2 kids to the game.  Granted you could bitch slap them when they ask for ice cream.  Do you think this is a factor, though?

This is actually a great price for a night out at a ball game.  Parking in Boston will cost you $50-$100 alone.

When you look at what the Marlins draw it's not awful (as I said before).  16,000 per game is more than the Panthers drew on average - and the Marlins play a heck of a lot more games.  My entire concern are these random less than 1,000 'hiccups.'  

If you move that game to the night time - and it isn't raining - the general thought seems to be that the attendance might have been much more.  That is really all I have been trying to get at this entire time.  You guys have got to see how that number is really unacceptable for a pro team.  But you're also right in that there are circumstances that weigh in:  amazing heat, the heat index and mid week game all factor in.

Stadium placement makes a lot of difference.  Anyone on this board ever been to the Trop in Tampa?  That stadium is VERY hard to get to.  Tampa would seemingly have everything that you would think would work in Florida:  dome, good team, newer stadium built solely for baseball.  I wonder how many people stay away in Tampa based solely on the fact that getting to that stadium is like trying to solve the Rubik's Cube while drunk on Boone's?

[Brian Fein]

I've been to the Trop a few times and I agree - its a nightmare.  Getting out after the game is much easier but if you don't get to the game 3 hours early, you're walking a mile to get to the stadium.  No joke, a full mile.  Not to mention that its really easy to get lost without a GPS navigator.

But, I don't think its "hard to get to the stadium" where the Marlins are concerned.  Jump on the Turnpike and there's a dedicated "Stadium" exit that basically drops you into the parking lot.  I think things that hurt include lack of public transportation (trains and such so people can come from far away) and the fact, like Dave said, that its in the middle of a residential neighborhood.  But, neither of those factors keep the Dolphins from selling nearly 80,000 tickets each week.

While I think a baseball stadium would make for a more enjoyable experience, I don't think the stadium is the Marlins' problem.

[MaineDolFan]

While I think a baseball stadium would make for a more enjoyable experience, I don't think the stadium is the Marlins' problem.

Okay - but I keep hearing recurring things that keep people away:  the fact that it's a football stadium and the seating is weird (at best) for Marlins games and heat.  If the Trop were in Miami (a dome built for baseball) you don't think that would help?

[Dave Gray]

I don't think it's fair to compare the Marlins and the Dolphins.

1) The Dolphins have been around a lot longer and are a lot, lot more popular.
2) The Dolphins only play at home once every 2 weeks.
3) Dolphins games are on the weekend, not in the middle of the week.



Things that are hurting the Marlins, fan loyalty aside:

1) Location
2) Surrounding entertainment, food, and nightlife.
3) Stadium size and layout.

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Go watch the Heat play.  They are hard to get to, as well, but they have 2 of the three things listed above.  There's a lot to do around the stadium.  There are bars, clubs and restaurants that are active whether the Heat are playing or not.  If you had a similar setup for baseball, where a family is having dinner and the game is starting soon, maybe they'll swing by.  ...that's what you're missing by placing your stadium among government subsidized housing in a residential area.

[Brian Fein]

Its hard to say, because I personally am not one of those that have that problem. True the heat is brutal during day games but we still went to two this season on Sundays and if you keep yourself hydrated with $4 gatorades, its not that bad.  I went to a Sunday afternoon in July and a gain in August and yes, a dome would help that.  But, I don't think "lack of a dome" is the root cause of why people don't go to games.

I can only speak for myself, and for me, the problem lies in the fact that people just don't give a flying rat's ass about the Marlins.

[Brian Fein]

Dave, a baseball game isn't a "hey we're having dinner at Bubba Gump and there's a baseball game going on, let's swing by" event.  In New York, games are sold out, you can't swing by, you have to fight people months ahead of time to get tickets.  I don't think anyone is going to go to a baseball game any more if they built a bar next store...  People (usually) go to watch baseball.

[Tepop84]

I think that the firesale right after the world series in 97 hurt a lot.  I think if they didn't sell and were a decent team again in 98 they would have picked up a ton of bandwagon fans. 

[Dave Gray]

I think excitement creates more excitement.  Sell-outs make people want to buy tickets.  Right now, that cycle isn't in effect.

So, by making the stadium easily accessible to people who just want to make a fun night of things, on the easy and relatively cheap, it's a tough sell, as is.

[YoFuggedaboutit]

Going back to Maine's original post.  I can see all of that happening, but not with the current plans in place.  Unless they can have some sort of shuttle service to take people from the MetroRail to the Orange Bowl site, it's not gonna fly.  Traffic was tough enough for Hurricanes games in that area and that was only 6-7 Saturdays in the fall, plus the Orange Bowl Classic on New Years night.  Imagine 81 games, most of them played on a hot, muggy weeknight in midsummer. 

[Dave Gray]

The Orange Bowl site is just a bad place to be.  It's way far South, and much of your fanbase can't access it.  It's in a bad neighborhood and there aren't people already there.

I think you're going to have to bring the baseball to where the people already are.

When I went to Columbus to visit, we walked right up to where the Blue-Jackets play.  We weren't there for that reason, but the way that downtown is designed, it's among the other things.  We ended up going to some sports bar to hang out.  There was a nightlife outside of that game.  I think that's what we need down here.

[landlocked]

   you could bitch slap them when they ask for ice cream. 

nice.

[YoFuggedaboutit]

The Orange Bowl site is just a bad place to be.  It's way far South, and much of your fanbase can't access it.  It's in a bad neighborhood and there aren't people already there.

I think you're going to have to bring the baseball to where the people already are.

When I went to Columbus to visit, we walked right up to where the Blue-Jackets play.  We weren't there for that reason, but the way that downtown is designed, it's among the other things.  We ended up going to some sports bar to hang out.  There was a nightlife outside of that game.  I think that's what we need down here.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.  A downtown Miami ballpark on the BiCentennial Park site would've been the best option.  Ease of access from the Metrorail/Metromover, and Bayside is right there. 

[SportsChick]

You'd still lose a lot of Palm Beach/Broward fans in that location. Getting to downtown Miami after work? For a 7 PM start?

I'm a baseball nut, I want my ass in my seat well before the first of 10,000 ceremonial first pitches is thrown