Vitamins?

[Dphins4me]

I'd like you to move out of your house now. God didn't give us hammers, bricks, glass, concrete, steel or power tools. Short term, it's OK for you to live there, but long term, God gave you everything you need.

   I do not need bricks, glass, concrete, steel or power tools to be healthy.

If I'm building a house then I do.  

So what does building supplies have to do with long term health?

[fyo]

So what does building supplies have to do with long term health?

If God gives you, directly, everything you need, why are building materials different than medicine?

Just because your understanding of one may be more complete than your understanding of the other. Both are man-made and can greatly improve your quality of life. You also railed against "man-made" food, which, again, begs the question: Why are building materials different than food and medicine?

In your latter arguments, you amended (or clarified) your initial position and stated that short-term use of medicine is fine. What is the difference between short-term and long-term use? Do you believe that medicine is fine for covering up symptoms, which may be preferable in the short term, but provides no "cure"?

[Dphins4me]

It's unfortunate that you mix sound (scientifically proven) advice with specious arguments about the negatives of modern medicine.

There is no question that leading a "healthy life", good diet, regular exercise and enough sleep, is a Good Thing. It reduces your risk of becoming ill and your overall energy levels and moods will be better than if you ate junk food, got too little sleep and were inactive.

Note the word "reduces", however.

Just because your risk of getting e.g. cancer is reduced, it is not zero. The same goes for pretty much every other disease.

  Gee, isn't this what I basically said above, but just with less words?

Health is about statistics.  Life is not a guarantee. 

We know if you smoke, it increases your chance of getting lung cancer ( That is a fact ) & if you do not then it does not mean you have a 100% chance of not getting lung cancer.  It just means your chances improve by not smoking.

So if you are unfortunate enough to get a brain tumor, and I sincerely hope you never are, will you refuse treatment? If your child gets leukemia, will you refuse bone marrow transplants?

Dude try reading what I have written & not what you want me to have written.    No where have I said medicine is all bad.

I hate the idea of having to take medicine - and fortunately I don't have a chronic disease (that I know of, anyway). Yes, you can manage many cases of e.g. diabetes and high blood pressure through diet and exercise, but that doesn't mean that is the case with all cases or all other diseases, chronic or not.

  Find one place where I said the word " all "

Its kinda hard for me to reply when you are replying to things I've never said.

[Dphins4me]

If God gives you, directly, everything you need, why are building materials different than medicine?

  Probably because I do not put building materials into my body.    Why are they different?  Return sales.

If I build a house, then I do not purchase anymore building supplies.  If I take long term medicine then I purchase more.

See this is the problem with you.  I said I believe God gave me everything I needed to be healthy.  I did not say God gave me everything I ever needed.  You said that in order to ridicule

For you.  I do believe God wanted me to get off my arse & do something, but I could just sit back & wait for the Gov. to take care of me.

Just because your understanding of one may be more complete than your understanding of the other. Both are man-made and can greatly improve your quality of life. You also railed against "man-made" food, which, again, begs the question: Why are building materials different than food and medicine?

  Again I do not put building supplies into my body to be processed by my body.   A human body is basically a chemical factory.  It breaks everything down & everything that it breaks down reacts with your body in some way shape or form.

Last time I'm addressing building supplies, because this analogy is ignorant.

In your latter arguments, you amended (or clarified) your initial position and stated that short-term use of medicine is fine. What is the difference between short-term and long-term use? Do you believe that medicine is fine for covering up symptoms, which may be preferable in the short term, but provides no "cure"?

  If you are covering up symptons then you are not helping your body.

My son had strep throat.  He got a shot.  He no longer had strep throat.  Shot cured the strep throat.

You are told you have high cholesterol.  You take a pill everyday for the rest of your life & hope it does not kill your liver.  No cure, just more chemicals introduced into your body & just look at the list of side effects, but go ahead & take it.  Its your body to do with it as you choose.

Do you see the difference.  God I hope so.

[Dphins4me]

If God gives you, directly, everything you need, why are building materials different than medicine?

  Probably because I do not put building materials into my body.    Why are they different?  Return sales.

If I build a house, then I do not purchase anymore building supplies.  If I take long term medicine then I purchase more.

See this is the problem with you.  I said I believe God gave me everything I needed to be healthy.  I did not say God gave me everything I ever needed.  You said that in order to ridicule

For you.  I do believe God wanted me to get off my arse & do something, but I could just sit back & wait for the Gov. to take care of me.

Just because your understanding of one may be more complete than your understanding of the other. Both are man-made and can greatly improve your quality of life. You also railed against "man-made" food, which, again, begs the question: Why are building materials different than food and medicine?

  Again I do not put building supplies into my body to be processed by my body.   A human body is basically a chemical factory.  It breaks everything down & everything that it breaks down reacts with your body in some way shape or form.

Last time I'm addressing building supplies, because this analogy is ignorant.

In your latter arguments, you amended (or clarified) your initial position and stated that short-term use of medicine is fine. What is the difference between short-term and long-term use? Do you believe that medicine is fine for covering up symptoms, which may be preferable in the short term, but provides no "cure"?

  If you are covering up symptons then you are not helping your body.

My son had strep throat.  He got a shot.  He no longer had strep throat.  Shot cured the strep throat.

You are told you have high cholesterol.  You take a pill everyday for the rest of your life & hope it does not kill your liver.  No cure, just more chemicals introduced into your body & just look at the list of side effects, but go ahead & take it.  Its your body to do with it as you choose.

Do you see the difference.  God I hope so.

[fyo]

Trying to recover from that triple post there...

I still don't see what the real difference, in your mind, is between building materials and stuff you put into your body. I think I see what you mean when you are trying to be rational, but...

Do you know its a federal law that only prescription drugs or surgery can fix something?  Why do you think that is?  Money.  Plus I'd say all prescription drugs come from the basic herbal stuff anyway & have you not seen the side effects of prescription drugs?

It's quite amazing how you manage to contradict yourself in single sentence.

This comes down to a basic what you believe.  IMO God gave us what we were suppose to eat ( veggies ) & man gave us fast food.  Who knows more?  Man or God?   Its all what you believe.

As far as cancer goes.  Friend of mine had breast cancer.  She had it removed & refused radiation.  Her & her husband checked into a healthier lifestyle & so far years later she is doing great.

And if they didn't get ALL of the cancer, she would be dead. She gambled and won. Doesn't mean it wasn't a gamble. Doesn't mean it wasn't the "smart" gamble, either. It's weighing the pros and cons, like most medicine. Make rational argument, don't start bringing God into it and then saying that some medicines are good and others not. That makes no sense at all.

[fyo]

Dphins4me, I'd like make one point perfectly clear here:

I agree with you (almost) completely on so-called "lifestyle diseases". In many cases, a disease caused by ones lifestyle can be fixed, at least long term, by fixing ones lifestyle. It might be beneficial to take medicine in some transition phase, but many cases of lifestyle diseases can be addressed by changes to ones lifestyle.

However, you are not just advocating skipping drugs when it comes to lifestyle diseases. You are also strongly insinuating that skipping radiation treatment after a mastectomy is the right choice. That kind of opinion is, in my opinion, dangerous. You are putting yourself and others who might listen to you at risk.

Sure, there are side effects to some treatments, many even, and ANYONE in need of treatment should sit down and consider the risks involved. Any good doctor will be more than happy to help in that process.

By the way, your rant against the established medical opinion on lifestyle diseases is not warranted. The accepted and established treatment, today, for high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes etc. is not just "continue living like you were, just take this pill every day for the rest of your life", as you claimed. No, science clearly indicates that a change in lifestyle - often combined with medical treatment, which may or may not be lifelong - is the best treatment. Doctors do need to be realistic, however, and I would not be surprised if the vast majority of patients were simply unable or unwilling to implement the wholesale changes to their lifestyle that would be needed to address their illness.

[bsmooth]

Thank you.  You nailed it.

You guys kill me. Why did it have to be  "as god intended"? Oh thats right you took another benign thread that had nothing to do with religion and injected your beliefs. The correct term would have been "as nature intended" since no one has proven an omnipotent being created nature and commanded it to produce the things we eat. Once we have 100% proof that such a being did, then your statement would be factually correct.

[Spider-Dan]

Here is the thrust of my point:

natural != healthy

Just because something is all-natural, that does not make it healthy.  I can trap a wild boar that has never felt the touch of civilization and slaughter it; the bacon that I get from said boar does not magically become healthier than, say,  a protein shake.

[Phishfan]

^^^ But it tastes a hell of a lot better.

[MaineDolFan]

Medicine. does not make you better, its simply suppresses the systems of your problem.. 

Damn.  I shouldn't have stayed in school for seven years to study this crap then.  Darn it...

[Dphins4me]

Trying to recover from that triple post there...

   Do know it was 4 am & I  am working graveyards.

I still don't see what the real difference, in your mind, is between building materials and stuff you put into your body. I think I see what you mean when you are trying to be rational, but...

Being rational?  So by saying I believe God provide us the nutritional food our bodies need to be healthy is not being rational?   

Replying would take it off on a tangent.

It's quite amazing how you manage to contradict yourself in single sentence.

  I simply said, they probably take a herbal form, break it down chemically & then make it in a pharmaceutical grade form to sell it.   

And if they didn't get ALL of the cancer, she would be dead. She gambled and won.
Doesn't mean it wasn't a gamble.  Doesn't mean it wasn't the "smart" gamble, either.

  Maybe she would, maybe she wouldn't.  Maybe they got all of it & maybe they didn't & what she did worked.  We do not know.

 

Make rational argument, don't start bringing God into it and then saying that some medicines are good and others not. That makes no sense at all.

  IMO, when they cured Polio the pharm industries figured out that by curing it, they lost revenue. 

Just my opinion, you do not have the share it.

[Dphins4me]

Dphins4me, I'd like make one point perfectly clear here:

I agree with you (almost) completely on so-called "lifestyle diseases". In many cases, a disease caused by ones lifestyle can be fixed, at least long term, by fixing ones lifestyle. It might be beneficial to take medicine in some transition phase, but many cases of lifestyle diseases can be addressed by changes to ones lifestyle.

  I agree 100%.  Nothing wrong with taking medicine even long term medicine for a short term to transition.   

I did just that.  Doctor wanted me to go on Niacin to bring down my triglycerides.  I ended up in the emergency room about a month later because of it, but it worked.

As a society we have gotten to instant with things.  No one became fat over a week, but when they start exercising to lose weight & it does not work in a week then they stop because its not working.

However, you are not just advocating skipping drugs when it comes to lifestyle diseases. You are also strongly insinuating that skipping radiation treatment after a mastectomy is the right choice. That kind of opinion is, in my opinion, dangerous. You are putting yourself and others who might listen to you at risk.

Incorrect.  I just told of a friend who did.  No where did I say you should or anyone else should.  This is your body & you decide what is best for it.  Not me, not the doctor, not your wife/husband.  Just you.

Three years ago when the doctor told my wife she needed heart procedure, she ask me what I thought.  He told her it should fix her problem.  I replied it did not matter what I thought.  It was her body.  If she wanted to have it, then have it.  If she didn't then don't.    She did & it helped for a while & last Jan she had to have it again. 

No one can nor should you let anyone else make decisions for you on your own body.  Its the only thing that is truly yours.

Sure, there are side effects to some treatments, many even, and ANYONE in need of treatment should sit down and consider the risks involved. Any good doctor will be more than happy to help in that process.

  Probably all.  I do not think their is one drug that does not come with a long list of side effects.

Heck, I was on Singular for years & just last year they came out & added that it could give you suicidal thoughts.  Where can I sign up to take that drug again?

By the way, your rant against the established medical opinion on lifestyle diseases is not warranted. The accepted and established treatment, today, for high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes etc. is not just "continue living like you were, just take this pill every day for the rest of your life", as you claimed. No, science clearly indicates that a change in lifestyle - often combined with medical treatment, which may or may not be lifelong - is the best treatment. Doctors do need to be realistic, however, and I would not be surprised if the vast majority of patients were simply unable or unwilling to implement the wholesale changes to their lifestyle that would be needed to address their illness.

  Yeap. We are lazy people who want to eat what taste good to us 100% of the time.   

[Dphins4me]

You guys kill me. Why did it have to be  "as god intended"?

  Because it is what I believe & its is what I said.

Oh thats right you took another benign thread that had nothing to do with religion and injected your beliefs.

Another?  You are just making shit up now.  

I've been on this board for years & have never used the word God, nor discussed  my beliefs.

The correct term would have been "as nature intended" since no one has proven an omnipotent being created nature and commanded it to produce the things we eat. Once we have 100% proof that such a being did, then your statement would be factually correct.

I'm not concerned with factually correct when it comes to my beliefs in an omnipotent being ( as you put it )   Are you afraid to use the word God?

 

[Dphins4me]

Damn.  I shouldn't have stayed in school for seven years to study this crap then.  Darn it...

Rephrase.  Long term medicine.

You mock.  What cure does pain medication provide?  None.  It suppresses that pain receptors.

Doctor put my mother on 800MG of Motrin.     Now she has one kidney.  What is the side effect of Motrin?

Doctor wanted to put my mother in-law on hormones pills.  She researched it & found out that the pills came from horse piss.  She refused & then a few years later they found out that it increased a woman chance of developing some form of cancer ( I think breast )

If you have to take something for the rest of your life, then it is not providing a cure.  Its only suppressing the systems.  If it was providing a cure, then you would not have to take it for the rest of your life.


Just look around at all the reports all the long term drugs being pull because of the harm it is doing.   The fact is they do not know the long term effects on the human body until people have been on it long term.  You cannot research that stuff.