Why do I get the feeling (opinions on Obama)

[run_to_win]

If you are talking about public schools in the state of Florida, this statement is incorrect. ESL / ESOL students are taught in 100% English.

Alright Florida!


Too bad they don't teach a course on butterfly ballots. 

[Spider-Dan]

Yeah, and now that oil/gas prices ARE falling the secret leader of OPEC, George W Bush, is going to have a secret meeting and get all the countries to cut production!  If that doesn't work then he'll just cook up another huge hurricane to rampage throught the gulf!

It is a tribute to Mr. Bush's vision and leadership that gas is merely $3.30 a gallon.  With any luck, gas prices will only have tripled during his time in office, which is probably just due to inflation, or something.

[Spider-Dan]

On the subject of cars in ghettos:

I live in arguably one of the worst areas of my town (I live in Fairfield, in Northern California).  The complex in which I live currently has a vacancy rate approaching 50%.  I am on no form of gov't assistance, yet I own one "sporty" car (2000 Avenger, original sticker price ~$21k) and one bona fide sports car (1995 3000GT Spyder VR4, original sticker price $65k).  My next-door neighbor is a retirement-aged couple that have lived here since the early '80s and own an early 2000s Camry and a Honda hybrid.  I strongly doubt that they receive any form of gov't assistance (except the Social Security that they paid for).

Meanwhile, many middle-class residents in middle-class neighborhoods bought $400k 1500-sqft houses that they could not afford and drove around in Priuses or Jettas... which they also could not afford.  They are reaping the whirlwind as we speak.

Driving around a neighborhood and looking at cars tells you precisely dick about the people that own them.

[run_to_win]

On the subject of cars in ghettos:

I live in arguably one of the worst areas of my town (I live in Fairfield, in Northern California).  The complex in which I live currently has a vacancy rate approaching 50%.  I am on no form of gov't assistance, yet I own one "sporty" car (2000 Avenger, original sticker price ~$21k) and one bona fide sports car (1995 3000GT Spyder VR4, original sticker price $65k).  My next-door neighbor is a retirement-aged couple that have lived here since the early '80s and own an early 2000s Camry and a Honda hybrid.  I strongly doubt that they receive any form of gov't assistance (except the Social Security that they paid for).

You're right.  We shouldn't stereotype based on neighborhood and vehicle.

Meanwhile, many middle-class residents in middle-class neighborhoods bought $400k 1500-sqft houses that they could not afford and drove around in Priuses or Jettas... which they also could not afford.  They are reaping the whirlwind as we speak.

Wait ... or should we stereotype based on neighborhood and vehicle?

I'm detecting mixed messages.

Driving around a neighborhood and looking at cars tells you precisely dick about the people that own them.

... unless they're middle-class neighborhoods?

[Phishfan]

Our government spends way too much of other peoples money on people who abuse it.  It's kind of funny that people like Joe Biden refuse to donate to charity but want us tax payers to cough up the goods.

While I appreciate your contirbutions, taxation and charitibale contributions are worlds apart. Biden also falls into the over $250K grouping whose taxes would increase.

[Defense54]

You're right.  We shouldn't stereotype based on neighborhood and vehicle.
Wait ... or should we stereotype based on neighborhood and vehicle?

I'm detecting mixed messages.

 ... unless they're middle-class neighborhoods?

Your on a roll today bro!   

[Spider-Dan]

Wait ... or should we stereotype based on neighborhood and vehicle?

I'm detecting mixed messages.

What's the confusion?  The stated premise was that those in low-income neighborhoods with nice cars were abusing gov't assistance, while the "responsible" middle-class citizens stayed within their means and bought middle class cars.  I disputed both of those points.

[CF DolFan]

While I appreciate your contirbutions, taxation and charitibale contributions are worlds apart. Biden also falls into the over $250K grouping whose taxes would increase.

Say what?  Why does he want more money?  To fund the less fortunante. That's what a charity is.  It's the exact same thing except no one is forced to do charity work ... and that's exactly how it should be.

If I want to give 50% of my salary away to help people and you want to keep 100% percent of yours ... and vice versa ... we should be able to.  Taxation to fund programs for the less fortunate is forcing people to take care of others... many who are perfectly capable.   It shouldn't work that way.  Biblically speaking I am responsible for doing so but I see no reason for someone to be forced to just because they are successful at life.

BTW .... under Obama's tax plan 40% of that 95% who won't have taxes raised do not even pay taxes.  Under the new plan they will not only not pay, they will now receive a check from the government. ... or should I say another check.

[run_to_win]

What's the confusion?  The stated premise was that those in low-income neighborhoods with nice cars were abusing gov't assistance, while the "responsible" middle-class citizens stayed within their means and bought middle class cars.  I disputed both of those points.

The only person making the latter point was you.  Did you make the point just so you could dispute it?

[Spider-Dan]

The only person making the latter point was you.  Did you make the point just so you could dispute it?

CF made the point that there were more luxury cars in the ghettos than in the middle-class neighborhoods, which carries the implication that those in middle-class neighborhoods were more commonly buying non-luxury cars within their means (unless you take it to mean that middle-class neighborhoods had no cars at all).

But fundamentally, your entire line of objection is invalid; at no time did I even imply that the majority of middle-class neighborhood residents were defaulting on their car loans or mortgages (any more than I implied that the majority of low-income neighborhood residents drive $65k sportscars).  My point was that there are financially irresponsible people in every neighborhood, and even those that drive non-luxury cars are not exempt from this condition.

[CF DolFan]

CF made the point that there were more luxury cars in the ghettos than in the middle-class neighborhoods,

That wasn't really my point ... but I probably wasn't clear enough.  I only used the midle calss as reference point ... not as a specific comparison.  There are definitely many irrisponsible people in the middle class. 

My point is that if you are living in government assisted homes and collecting government funding, you shouldn't be driving 40 and 50 thousand dollar automobiles.  If you can qualify for one and then qualify for the other ... somehwere somone isn't being truthful.

[Defense54]

That wasn't really my point ... but I probably wasn't clear enough.  I only used the midle calss as reference point ... not as a specific comparison.  There are definitely many irrisponsible people in the middle class. 

My point is that if you are living in government assisted homes and collecting government funding, you shouldn't be driving 40 and 50 thousand dollar automobiles.  If you can qualify for one and then qualify for the other ... somehwere somone isn't being truthful.

jeez you have all the answers huh?  What you state above is correct. However.........can you give proof as to where that actually happens? Show me 1 person on Welfare drining a Hummer please. 

Lots of people on Welfare are there becuase they are lazy. I've seen some pull together enough for $3000 rims on a $500 POS car.  But Qualify and get a $40,000 Vehicle?  Wouldn't last long in the Hood anyway.  I think your making your point by pointing out something so ridiculous of course we agree with it. But like most of the acusations you state here........you have No Proof.

[Phishfan]

Say what?  Why does he want more money?  To fund the less fortunante. That's what a charity is.  It's the exact same thing except no one is forced to do charity work ... and that's exactly how it should be.

If I want to give 50% of my salary away to help people and you want to keep 100% percent of yours ... and vice versa ... we should be able to.  Taxation to fund programs for the less fortunate is forcing people to take care of others... many who are perfectly capable.   It shouldn't work that way.  Biblically speaking I am responsible for doing so but I see no reason for someone to be forced to just because they are successful at life.

BTW .... under Obama's tax plan 40% of that 95% who won't have taxes raised do not even pay taxes.  Under the new plan they will not only not pay, they will now receive a check from the government. ... or should I say another check.

OK CF. You are as bad a dolfins4me now. We all know taxes are not collected just to give money back to the poor (you especially since you are paid out of tax money). I also don't know where this additional check claim comes from. I haven't heard about that. I also doubt your figures of people who do not pay taxes.

[run_to_win]

I also don't know where this additional check claim comes from. I haven't heard about that. I also doubt your figures of people who do not pay taxes.

The "additional check claim" comes from a combination of math and common sense.  If someone is paying $zero net taxes (they get 100% refunded) then how can they get a tax break? 

The figure varies but 40% is about right: (link).

[Dphins4me]

  Biblically speaking I am responsible for doing so but I see no reason for someone to be forced to just because they are successful at life.

Is this why I've heard people say Obama is doing Gods work?