Obama not a natural born citizen argument

[Lee]

Please take the time to watch this video in its entirety and then lets have a logical discussion.

I am curious as to what everyone's opinions on this matter are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTs1YyhFRg

[run_to_win]

My opinion is...

...Obama supporters will not watch the video.

...not releasing documents is a ploy to get the electorate's attention away from other problems.  They're cleverly getting "us" to focus on a non-issue rather than other issues such as anonymous donations that can't be tracked.

...regardless how substantial and provable the charges are, disqualifying the first ever minority candidate, no matter how valid or legal, would do tremendous harm to race relations among our less moderate citizens.

...if Obama does not meet the qualifications and gets found out and loses the Presidency over it, then it's his own fault.  He never should have ran if he does not meet the criteria.  Those who voted for him in the primaries without verification would be as much to blame as those Republicans who voted for a moderate like John McCain.

[Brian Fein]

This is grasping at straws.  He seems bitter.  People will make anything up in desperation.  I heard a lot of "I think" and no facts...

He has the burden of proof.  You can't make up allegations and ask people to defend themselves as proof against his outlandish claim.

The fact that he doesn't produce a birth certificate (incase you haven't noticed, the guy has been campaigning) isn't proof that you're right.

They showed two documents he called "birth certificates" and said "one doesn't have a seal" when in fact you can see a silhouette of a seal from a scanned copy.

And all that mumbo-jumbo about him being naturalized citizen?  If you're born in the US, that's the requirement.

Seems like this guy is desperately trying to get Obama discounted to promote his anti-abortion agenda.

[StL FinFan]

If this were true, it would have come up a lot sooner than a few days before the election.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

If this were true, it would have come up a lot sooner than a few days before the election.

Come up sooner?  It comes up frequently ever since early in the primary season.  It has been fully researched but even Fox has concluded that their is no merit to the BS. 

[Buddhagirl]

The issue I have with all of this is that to be a senator, one would have to have a top notch security clearance (or whatever they call it.) Wouldn't this have come up years ago. Then to run for president, there would be another round of security, etc.

I wasn't born in the states. My birth certificate is German. When I lost my social security card years ago, it was HELL for me to get  a new one. I had to have specific documentation stating that I was born to American parents.

I just don't see how this hasn't come up before. (Not meaning in the election, but before that.)

[raptorsfan29]

one would have to have a top notch security clearance (or whatever they call it.) Wouldn't this have come up years ago. Then to run for president, there would be another round of security, etc.

To be a senator there is really only 3 things you need

- 30 years of age
- have a residency in the state you are being elected in
- a 9 year citizenship

You don't have to be born in the united states to be a senator, just these three things i mentioned.

[Buddhagirl]

To be a senator there is really only 3 things you need

- 30 years of age
- have a residency in the state you are being elected in
- a 9 year citizenship

You don't have to be born in the united states to be a senator, just these three things i mentioned.

I know and understand this. I'm referring to the level of security that he would have to gain to be allowed in the Capital buildings. I'm sure they know rather he is a citizen or not.

[Phishfan]

This guy even contradicts himself in his video. He says Obama had to have been an Indonesian citizen to attend school, but then acknowledges that he doesn't believe Obama went through INS to come back to the US. You can't have both buddy.

[BingeBag]

Why not produce the documents to the court and dismiss this case immediately? It makes no sense that they wouldn't have done that especially if it has the potential to sway voters away from your side.

[Frimp]

I believe that Obama was born in the US, and can legitimately run for president. I can also understand why Obama wouldn't just whip out his birth certificate. It is better for him to let this continue because it makes the accusers look ridiculous. The people who are accusing him of not being a natural citizen, and the people who are accusing him of being a Muslim are indirectly harming the McCain campaign. There are plenty of legitimate things to go after Obama on, and this isn't one of them.

As for the security clearance, I doubt he would be able to be a member of the secret service though because of his association with Ayers, and a couple others.

[landlocked]

Ridiculous!I agree with Brian,Buddhagirl,and StLFinFan.I also saw a survey yesterday about how 23% of the people in Texas actually believe he is a muslim.

[Brian Fein]

Someone tell me why its so bad to be a Muslim?

[Spider-Dan]

Even the right-wingers acknowledge that this is a joke, right up there with the 9/11 Truthers.

This from a popular right-wing blog:

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/12/obama-is-an-american-no-really/

I really thought we’d put this conspiracy theory to rest over the summer, but it has arisen like a zombie yet again to suck the credibility out of the conservative blogosphere. I have had at least 40 e-mails begging me to watch this video featuring Phillip Berg, a PUMA suing Barack Obama and the Democratic Party to prove Obama’s citizenship — even though Obama has already produced a certification of live birth from Hawaii that would get him a passport any day of the week:

Last week, we got tons of e-mail purporting to claim that Berg had won in court and Obama had three days to produce proof of citizenship. It turned out that someone had posted an exemplar of the order, produced by the plaintiff in case the judge granted their motion.  In other words, it meant nothing, and neither does this.

Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961, making him a natural-born citizen of the United States.  Hawaii’s certification of live birth proves this, as Allahpundit and I have both noted this summer.  Fact Check also verified it, although the video does its best to undermine that by noting the connection to the Annenberg Foundation.  By the way, Berg and the video manage to mangle this, too, by claiming Obama sat on the board of the Annenberg Foundation itself and distributed their funding.  He ran the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, one of the foundation’s beneficiaries. (The St. Petersburg Times also verified the certification independently.)

Wouldn’t it be nice if we had a contemporaneous corroboration of Obama’s Hawaii birth?  As it happens, we do — provided by another PUMA who wanted to find ways to disqualify Obama.  Lori Starfelt found this in the archives of the Honolulu Advertiser in a print copy from August 1961:

http://hotair.cachefly.net/images/2008-07/barack_obama_birth.jpg

Unless people want to start claiming that the conspiracy to have Barack Obama infiltrate the political system started at the moment of his birth, that’s pretty conclusive evidence that Obama was born in the US and is a natural-born citizen.

I already know some of the rebuttals that will fly through the comments, so let me address them here:

    * A court is hearing this case, so it must be serious — Any fool with a lawyer and a couple of hundred dollars can file a lawsuit.  That’s one of the reasons why tort reform is so badly needed.  Frivolous lawsuits cost consumers billions of dollars.  Conservatives used to make that argument, at least until Phillip Berg filed this lawsuit.
    * Why isn’t Obama answering the lawsuit? — Maybe because it’s ridiculous, and Berg has no standing to file it anyway.
    * Why not produce the birth certificate? — Obama has … twice now, once on his website and once to Fact Check.
    * Well, then, why didn’t he produce it sooner, smart guy? — Sooner than what?  This came up at the end of the primaries, and the Obama campaign produced it within a couple of weeks.  So far, that hasn’t done much to quell the conspiracy theories.
    * Why not produce the original birth certificate? — Most people, I’d wager, don’t have their own original birth certificate.  If you applied to get your records, in most states you’d get what Obama has - a certification of live birth spit out from a computer system.  I doubt Hawaii has the original record any longer, either.  The certification proves citizenship well enough to get a passport.

Let’s stop chasing absurd conspiracy theories that make it more difficult to win the real arguments in this election.  Stick to Obama’s absurd theories on national security, his radical political allies, and his disastrous economic policies that will make these past few weeks seem like a breeze.  He’s the wrong man for the job, but still an American.

Update: To answer another question (reasonably asked in the comments), Barack Obama’s Indonesian stepfather could not have revoked Obama’s birthright as an American citizen, no matter what he told the school Obama attended.

Screw Loose Change has dealt with Phillip Berg before.  It turns out that Berg thinks Bush and Cheney either created 9/11 or let it happen deliberately.  Conspiracy theory nuts don’t usually stop at one paranoid fantasy, and this demonstrates it.  It turns out he has quite a history of lawsuits and publicity stunts, and this was written at the beginning of 2007. (via Public Secrets)

[Dave Gray]

Frimp is absolutely right (you won't hear that from me much.)

There are legitimate reasons to disagree with Obama.  He's not an evil guy, a Muslim, a socialist, a heathen, the antichrist, etc.  He's not going to destroy the country.

But he does support a more progressive tax structure than many Republicans are comfortable with.  ...and that's good.  The USA is about having disagreements on issues, and then having parties balance those things out over the years.

You can disagree with Obama and vote for McCain, but do it because of policy -- not because you're chasing some crazy conspiracy theory.