Brady Quinn and Matt Ryan

[Spider-Dan]

We have a QB that is better, statistically, than Ryan.

Trent Green was, statistically, better for MIA than Quinn has been for CLE (and, incredibly, also more durable!).

On draft day we had a gaping need on the offensive line.

We had a gaping need at QB before both drafts.  Cameron/Mueller at least had the excuse that they were already working on a deal for Green.  Parcells would have been content to send us into the season with McCown/Beck/Henne as the QB corps, but we lucked out when Pennington became available.

And as best I can recall, our OL needs were worse before the '07 draft than they were before the '08 draft (mainly because we drafted Satele in '07).

Again - had Miami taken an offensive lineman last year instead of Ginn you would not have heard many people chirpin' about Quinn.

People still complained about giving away Wes freaking Welker even though we got Samson Satele (plus another pick) in return, so I doubt that any lineman would have silenced the Quinn-lovers.

As to what my point is:

1) Quinn was not a good pick at #9  (regardless of who we got instead)
2) Quinn has done nothing to indicate that MIA was wrong to pass on him
3) Any person that insists that we should have picked Quinn should logically also insist that we should have picked Ryan

[Spider-Dan]

He was for the Dolphins with no qb.  We have already gone over that.  The other teams passed on him because they didn't need a qb.  Why pay first round money for something you don't need.

Cameron/Mueller had already been in discussions with the Chiefs to acquire a veteran QB, which they did.  They had another QB (Beck) ranked equally high on their chart, and they got him with a 2nd rounder.

I don't think it was unreasonable for Cameron/Mueller to believe that Green+Ginn+Beck was a better choice to address the needs at QB and WR than Green+Quinn+???.

[dolfan13]

people have such short term memories... when nicktator up and left (because of his lack of personnel abilities in putting together an nfl caliber team), "dolfans" everywhere including a large majority of this site wanted an "offensive" minded coach. this is how we ended up with the piss poor excuse of an nfl coach in cam camoron...

fast forward to the draft... everyone felt that the solution to all of miami's woes was to be more "offensive" minded. after all, most of our head coaches were of the defensive mind right 

so with the first pick of the camoron/mueller regime, its obvious they pigeon-holed themselves into only considering offensive skill players. they felt that beck was better than quinn, so the only player left to choose from was ginn. the next 11 out of 12 players selected were all defensive players.

lesson to learn, always select best player available. the giants are a perfect example of this, people in new york were ballistic when they selected yet another defensive end (when at the time so-called "experts" said they didn't need another one).

[fyo]

so with the first pick of the camoron/mueller regime, its obvious they pigeon-holed themselves into only considering offensive skill players. they felt that beck was better than quinn, so the only player left to choose from was ginn. the next 11 out of 12 players selected were all defensive players.

I think you hit the nail on the head there.

It's worth noting that aside from a running back (Lynch) and Quinn, the next two offensive players taken were also receivers.

Ted Ginn Jr.
Dwayne Bowe
Robert Meachem

Bowe has had quite a bit of success with the Chiefs, recording almost a 1000 yards in his rookie season and on track for about the same this year.

Meachem has been a bust so far with only a single start in New Orleans (he does have 2 touchdowns in only 9 receptions, so that's certainly one heck of an "efficiency"). He didn't see the field at all in his rookie season.

[Thundergod]

He was for the Dolphins with no qb.  We have already gone over that.  The other teams passed on him because they didn't need a qb.  Why pay first round money for something you don't need.

Thank you...


As for Ryan, I wouldn't have minded one bit if Miami selected him. At draft time, the Dolphins (IMO) still had no QB. I'm good with Henne though, it's just too bad we won't see him for another 2-3 more years. Oh well, as long as Miami's still winning...

[NADS]

I didn't see the fascination with Quinn after watching his receivers make highlight reel catches on bad passes.  I'm glad we didn't take him.  The Falcons took Ryan partly as a PR move after the suckfest that followed Vick.  Good for him that he's doing so well. 

I don't see what all the Henne hype is about either.  People talk about the rocket arm but can he read a defense?  As far as quarterbacks go, I'd rather trade than draft. 

[MaineDolFan]

1) Quinn was not a good pick at #9  (regardless of who we got instead)
2) Quinn has done nothing to indicate that MIA was wrong to pass on him
3) Any person that insists that we should have picked Quinn should logically also insist that we should have picked Ryan

I don't disagree with any of that.  I still say that Quinn is going to be a good QB in this league and Ryan is showing he already is. 

Living up here and watching a lot of Ryan's college ball, I was hoping that Parcells might take him.  But I am very happy with the beast that is Jake Long, which is why passing on Ryan was a little easier to stomach (versus passing on Quinn for Ginn).

Fair or not, I still have visions of Yatil Green when I see Ginn.  He's proving me wrong every game, I think the kid has some stones.  But if we're talking about my reaction on that draft day, I was pissed.

[CF DolFan]

Parcells handled the QB situation correctly.  Better than Wanney, Saban or Cameron ever could have dreamed.

I can't let this slide Maine.  Parcells and company got lucky not once, but twice. #1 Chad fell into their lap after the Favre ordeal and #2 Chad is performing even better than his biggests fans could have seen.

Remember who we had penciled in as our starting QB under Parcells? McCown. I can't say that was handling the situation any better than any of our previous.

[Brian Fein]

But to be fair, Parcells and crew went out and got Pennington 1 day after he was released.  They did the right thing to bring him in before he even had a chance to go anywhere else.

Imagine if we had Drew Brees right now....  should we even bring that into the conversation?

[MaineDolFan]

I can't let this slide Maine.  Parcells and company got lucky not once, but twice. #1 Chad fell into their lap after the Favre ordeal and #2 Chad is performing even better than his biggests fans could have seen.

Remember who we had penciled in as our starting QB under Parcells? McCown. I can't say that was handling the situation any better than any of our previous.

I couldn't disagree more. 

Let's start at the beginning.  Parcells and company inherited a flaming bag of shit, QB wise.  McCown wasn't a bad signing, he was the best of a bad lot that was available.  It's not like Tom Brady was out there to be had.  He drafted well (it would appear) with the kid in the 2nd round.

They didn't "get lucky" obtaining Pennington.  The guy was released and had offers on the table from several teams.  It's not as if they traded an 8th round pick for him.  They had to fight off other teams to pick him up.  That's not luck.

#2 - they didn't "get lucky" with his performance and he is certainly not out performing "even the wildest dreams of his fans.  Chad's QB rating this season is 93ish.  His lifetime QB rating 89.7, basically 90.  He has stayed healthy, yes, but Pennington - healthy - is a 3,000 yard 20 TD to 5 INT guy each year.  He has never thrown more INT's than TD's.  He is what he is.  Your statement would make someone think he's a life time 70 QB rating guy that tosses for 1,500 yards, 18 INT's to 9 TD's.  Ain't true.

And Brian nailed it - had Saban gone with Brees and not Culpepper, none of us would be talking about any of this.

[Sunstroke]

Imagine if we had Drew Brees right now....  should we even bring that into the conversation?

I've brought it up in conversation a couple of times lately, as I think that was the worst FA decision that this franchise has made in the last decade or so. Whichever team or consulting doctor advised Miami against Brees, based on his shoulder, should be beaten to death with his own stethoscope.

[Tepop84]

They didn't "get lucky" obtaining Pennington.  The guy was released and had offers on the table from several teams.  It's not as if they traded an 8th round pick for him.  They had to fight off other teams to pick him up.  That's not luck.

So it wasn't luck that luck that Chad decided to come to Miami when he had offers from other teams.  You example is backwards.  It wouldn't be luck if they traded a draft pick for him.

[MaineDolFan]

No, it's not luck.  It's presenting a better product, a better opportunity.  If you're buying a TV and you choose Sony over Samsung, was that luck?  Or was that based upon an educated choice?

Chad made an educated choice based on what we put in front of him.

Luck would have been the Jets so desperate to dump him that they would trade him to a division rival for a low draft pick - a situation where the player has little to no say what so ever.

My example was very clear.

[CF DolFan]

I still say it's luck.  Going into this season Chad wasn't even guaranteed to start on his own team.  He certainly wasn't expected to start for us seeing as how no one knew how that Favre game was going to happen.  Parcells and co. was at the right place at the right time and lightning struck. Parcells had no freaking clue that Penny was coming nor that he would still produce like he is.   

Had it not been for blind arse luck and given McCown and company were our leaders ... we may still be looking for our first win and then the Ryan screams would be very loud.

[Spider-Dan]

They didn't "get lucky" obtaining Pennington.  The guy was released and had offers on the table from several teams.  It's not as if they traded an 8th round pick for him.  They had to fight off other teams to pick him up.  That's not luck.

Pennington could have chosen to sign with anyone, or even simply retire.  We got lucky that no one else decided to throw more money at him than we did (it's not like no other team could have outbid us).

But more importantly: the fact that Pennington was even on the market was luck.   It was pure, unadulterated luck that GB decided to trade Favre and that NYJ was the team to get him.  Parcells had absolutely NOTHING to do with either of those events, both of which were prerequisites in order to obtain Pennington.  That's what makes it luck.

#2 - they didn't "get lucky" with his performance and he is certainly not out performing "even the wildest dreams of his fans.  Chad's QB rating this season is 93ish.  His lifetime QB rating 89.7, basically 90.  He has stayed healthy, yes, but Pennington - healthy - is a 3,000 yard 20 TD to 5 INT guy each year.

And there's where the luck comes in.

Pennington had averaged 10 games per season over the last 5 years and has had two major arm surgeries.  For him to have remained completely healthy through 13 games is, indeed, extremely lucky.