Brady Quinn and Matt Ryan

[MaineDolFan]

Furthermore:

If the outrage is really about taking Ginn (and not about passing on Quinn), why aren't people saying we should have taken Patrick Willis?  At least he's doing something in this league.

[Brian Fein]

Not only did we reach for a guy, we reached for a guy at a position we didn't really have a need for at the time.  We had so many other pressing needs, one of which Quinn would've filled. 

Not to mention that when you're coming off a 6-10 season, you don't draft a kick returner in the first round. 

Stop being blind, Tommy.  Ted Ginn is a Wide Receiver.  Besides what you think, we had a need as a 2nd wide receiver.  Marty Booker was a free agent and not returning.  Wes Welker got poached by the Patriots.  Who was our #2 WR then behind Chambers?  Derek Hagan?  Really?  We had a need at WR, and oh by the way, he's a pretty damn good kick returner on the side.

Your argument is weak and outdated, please stop the hate.

[fyo]

Stop being blind, Tommy.  Ted Ginn is a Wide Receiver.  Besides what you think, we had a need as a 2nd wide receiver.  Marty Booker was a free agent and not returning.  Wes Welker got poached by the Patriots.  Who was our #2 WR then behind Chambers?  Derek Hagan?  Really?  We had a need at WR, and oh by the way, he's a pretty damn good kick returner on the side.

Your argument is weak and outdated, please stop the hate.

I'm usually on the "defending Ginn" side, but that's defending the PLAYER Ginn. I don't understand the pick. Seriously.

I don't like REACHING, regardless of what position it is.

I really think dolfan13 struck gold with his observation that 11 of the next 12 taken were defensive players - the lone offensive player a running back. In other words, IF the team drafting was locked into an offensive (non-RB) player, there were no better choices than Ginn (with the knowledge available at the time).

But being locked into an offensive player, regardless of need, is STUPID.

So, the Ginn pick was STUPID.

I'll now return to my scheduled programming of defending Ginn

[Brian Fein]

I agree with you, but some people like to find random exaggerated arguments to PROVE that its stupid.  An objective fan can see the justification in the mind of the coach, no matter how much you might disagree.

BUT, what's done is done, and its really even stupider to keep arguing about it.  Ted Ginn is a Miami Dolphin, Brady Quinn is not.  IF you love Brady Quinn so much, there's a Browns message board out there somewhere.  Otherwise, stay and cheer for the team (including Ted Ginn).

[run_to_win]

IF those making the decision really had Beck rated higher than Quinn THEN drafting Ginn makes perfect sense since he is supposedly a game breaker.  WR has been considered a huge weakness on this team since .... the days of OJ McDuffie?  Especially a burner who can stretch the defense. 

What doesn't make sense is not trading down a bit before taking him.

[dolfan13]

What doesn't make sense is not trading down a bit before taking him.

you can only trade down if someone else is willing to move up (and has enough ammunition according to the chart gospel). the next 11 out of 12 players selected were defensive, so no one was going to move up to get ginn.

actually i remember an interview of mueller during a preseason game that year, and he was asked about the ted ginn pick. mueller's response was that the team needed speed on offense, and he was very adamant about that.

again, we had non-football people managing the organization, deciding that we needed to be more "offensive", hiring an "offensive" minded (albeit crappy) head coach and it was a sure bet that the first pick that year was to be an offensive skill position. for good or bad, they locked themselves into that pick... the real issue here is the not ted ginn pick (i happen to think he is going to be a good player for the fins), where he was selected, etc... rather how crappy camoron/mueller were in putting together an nfl team and what lack of vision they had. thank god those clowns are gone.

[run_to_win]

you can only trade down if someone else is willing to move up (and has enough ammunition according to the chart gospel). the next 11 out of 12 players selected were defensive, so no one was going to move up to get ginn.

Agreed, EXCEPT, any team that moved up would not have to take Ginn.  A team could have traded up to take Patrick Willis, for example, and stuck the 49ers with Ginn.  Then we could have enjoyed Sunstroke ranting on this issue.

[Brian Fein]

I think RTW hit it on the head.

The problem is not that they passed on Quinn, not that the picked Ginn instead, but that the coaches evaluated the QB class and determined John Beck was a better QB than Brady Quinn.

Let's make this assumption, and agree with Coach Cam for a minute.  Does it not make perfect sense to do exactly what the Dolphins did if, in fact, John Beck is better than Brady Quinn?

Quite simply, the staff didn't feel Quinn was worth a 9 overall.  Disagree all you want, but that is the real reason why we passed on Quinn.

[dolfan13]

it was no secret that the dolphins were going to pick an offensive player. most thought it would be quinn, but thats beside the point...

everyone drafting from 10 on, almost exclusively took defensive players. there was no need to try to trade into #9 (unless you wanted quinn or ginn), when the same defensive players would be sitting at #10. they could not trade out of that position, because everyone pretty much knew they were going offense and no one wanted to pay a #9 price to move up to get those offensive players.

[Tepop84]

it was no secret that the dolphins were going to pick an offensive player. most thought it would be quinn, but thats beside the point...

everyone drafting from 10 on, almost exclusively took defensive players. there was no need to try to trade into #9 (unless you wanted quinn or ginn), when the same defensive players would be sitting at #10. they could not trade out of that position, because everyone pretty much knew they were going offense and no one wanted to pay a #9 price to move up to get those offensive players.

LOL, you guys are really good at drafting aren't you.  Of course if you were sitting at 21 and wanted an offensive player you wouldn't move up to 9.  If you happened to be sitting at 21 and wanted a defensive player, you might think about trading up to get to number 9 so you get a top 10 defensive player. 

[Spider-Dan]

Wow, I'm surprised at the general tone of this thread.  Seems that the Quinn fans were just a (very) vocal minority.

I agree with the basic premise put forth by RTW; if you have Beck rated equal-to-or-better-than Quinn, and you have a great chance to get one of them at 40, it makes no sense to pick one of them at 9.  So if you aren't picking a QB at 9, what were your other options?

[Spider-Dan]

LOL, you guys are really good at drafting aren't you.  Of course if you were sitting at 21 and wanted an offensive player you wouldn't move up to 9.  If you happened to be sitting at 21 and wanted a defensive player, you might think about trading up to get to number 9 so you get a top 10 defensive player.

Clearly you have missed the point.

If you know that #9 is not any threat to take a player you want (you want D, they are picking O), why would you want to pay the cost of trading up to 9 (according to the draft value chart) when you can just wait and then pay #10 the lesser cost to trade up to their spot?

[Tepop84]

Clearly you have missed the point.

If you know that #9 is not any threat to take a player you want (you want D, they are picking O), why would you want to pay the cost of trading up to 9 (according to the draft value chart) when you can just wait and then pay #10 the lesser cost to trade up to their spot?

Because 10 isn't going to give up their pick if they are going defense and you are going defense.

[run_to_win]

Clearly you have missed the point.

If you know that #9 is not any threat to take a player you want (you want D, they are picking O), why would you want to pay the cost of trading up to 9 (according to the draft value chart) when you can just wait and then pay #10 the lesser cost to trade up to their spot?

This is all hindsight.  If you knew the draft order in advance, which seems to be the premise of the majority of this thread,...

#10 (Texans) picked defense.  If you wanted Okoye or Willis you had to go to #9.

[raptorsfan29]

i think for now on i should just post this every time a ginn-Quinn post comes up. seems to sum up my feelings perfectly.



I may be in the minority, but i like Ginn. not the greatest WR around, but has been productive in some way.