Pennington or Henne?

[Defense54]

Penny is coming back with a bad taste in his mouth.......again. He wasn't here for training camp last year. This time you let them compete and let the best man win. I don't see Beck holding a clipboard next year.

[Sunstroke]

Let's keep this on topic...it isn't a Tebow thread, it's a "who do you want as Miami's QB"  thread, and there is zero chance of Miami drafting Tebow.

Despite Pennington's success this (regular) season, I never wanted any vet to come in for more than a "let me warm the seat until the rookie can get up to speed" scenario, as I am STILL considering Miami as a team at the base of a massive rebuilding job. Sure, 11 wins are groovy, and they got Miami some long-missed media love, but I STILL want to see Henne get up to speed as quickly as possible so we can take the next step in the rebuild.

[bsfins]

I think it's a little too early to be predicting "who" should be our starting QB next season....I feel too much rests on what the off season brings us...

I've said it over and over on TDMMC Saturday night,I think Henne should get every opportunity to start in training camp.I feel given the harder schedule,and that Pennington needs the players around him to make the plays...I think we need to remember we're still a rebuilding team,and we got some ...err umm fortuitous luck this year....Brady going down,Playing the 2 worst divisions in football,making west coast teams travel to Miami,playing Buffalo in Toronto in a dome,playing in New York with really nice Weather for December...

I also feel like the offense will become stagnate with the lack of big play ability of Pennigton...I'm on the fence on Ginn,but feel we'll not know what he's capable with Pennington at QB....

I also think that group of fans that when we win 2 wins,seem to think we can beat anyone in the league...Then when we lose one,they want half the team cut,and coaches fired...Are going to be the first to scream bench Pennington when we lose a couple in a row next year....We can't erase our 1 win season of 07,regardless of how many wins we get the next couple of wins....

I also Feel like if we start Henne the season's not lost,as mentioned by someone earlier,let's remember 2 rookie QB's made the Playoffs...And Henne taking over for Pennington...is no where near the same as Arron Rodgers,replacing Brett Farve....

Pennington a little better = Jay Fielder They are both care takers types....

By the way I didn't realize that Nebraska is a small school (referring to Eric Crouch)

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Chad, definitely Chad!

Book it!

[DZA]

I say  and  i hadve been saying it  all this time,  give the rights to Penny he deserves it.  Henne will get his chance .

[Dolphin-UK]

I'm just grateful that we are having this argument with two decent QB's rather than trying to figure out which of the three on the roster is the least bad

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I'm just grateful that we are having this argument with two decent QB's rather than trying to figure out which of the three on the roster is the least bad

Actually it is an argument between a decent QB and an unknown QB. 

[run_to_win]

I'm just grateful that we are having this argument with two decent QB's...

I think it's a little early and optimistic to call Henne a decent NFL QB at this point.  He's only played in one NFL game thus far.  

How many times have we heard the decent QB argument?

Trent Green
Daunte Culpepper
Joey Harrington
Gus Frerotte
Sage "Mr Preseason" Rosenfels
Brian Griese
Ray Lucas
AJ Feeley

[ochizon]

Pennington a little better = Jay Fielder They are both care takers types....

you think Jay fiedler was better than pennington?

[fyo]

If we want to start Henne, we need to take a serious look at what teams like the Falcons and Ravens have done right with their young quarterbacks: Stick to the running game, solid offensive line with lots of max-protect and keep things simple for the quarterback.

The last part is, for some reason, very difficult for coaches to understand, yet almost all examples of young, successful quarterbacks were allowed the luxury of simplicity early in their career (think Roethlisberger).

It's very difficult for a college quarterback to go through all the reads required in a fully-fledged NFL offense. If we do go with Henne, we need to accept that and NOT run the same offense we would have, had Pennington been under center.

Both pre-snap and post-snap reads need to be reduced. The Falcons and Ravens accomplished both by using plenty of max-protect. Keeping more blockers in reduces the need to make blitz-adjustments, givers the QB more time in the pocket and does away with a bunch of receiver reads the quarterback would never get through anyway (and the opposing team would know this with some simple scouting).

I read somewhere that no team ran on 3rd and 10+ more than the Falcons and they did so like 50% of the time. On first and 10, both teams ran around 2/3rds of the time. That kind of dedication to the run really helps a young quarterback settle in and develop.

Sure, if your young QB has a canon of an arm, it's perfectly reasonable to take shots down the field (which Flacco does), but it should never be forced.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

If we want to start Henne, we need to take a serious look at what teams like the Falcons and Ravens have done right with their young quarterbacks: Stick to the running game, solid offensive line with lots of max-protect and keep things simple for the quarterback.

The last part is, for some reason, very difficult for coaches to understand, yet almost all examples of young, successful quarterbacks were allowed the luxury of simplicity early in their career (think Roethlisberger).

It's very difficult for a college quarterback to go through all the reads required in a fully-fledged NFL offense. If we do go with Henne, we need to accept that and NOT run the same offense we would have, had Pennington been under center.

Both pre-snap and post-snap reads need to be reduced. The Falcons and Ravens accomplished both by using plenty of max-protect. Keeping more blockers in reduces the need to make blitz-adjustments, givers the QB more time in the pocket and does away with a bunch of receiver reads the quarterback would never get through anyway (and the opposing team would know this with some simple scouting).

I read somewhere that no team ran on 3rd and 10+ more than the Falcons and they did so like 50% of the time. On first and 10, both teams ran around 2/3rds of the time. That kind of dedication to the run really helps a young quarterback settle in and develop.

Sure, if your young QB has a canon of an arm, it's perfectly reasonable to take shots down the field (which Flacco does), but it should never be forced.

Henne won't be a rookie. 

Huge difference between starting your rookie year and starting year 2.  Very difficult for a rookie to learn the entire playbook in camp.  And even if Henne doesn't have it completely memorized now, there is absolutely no reason for him not have it mastered before camp starts. 

[bsfins]

you think Jay fiedler was better than pennington?

Nope I actually think they're both pretty much the same....
I think Pennigton is a little better,they both have their strengths and weakness' but both are caretakers and need playmakers around them,they aren't game changers in themselves...

Chad Pennington Played in 69 games in his time with the Jets...(8 years) Jay Fiedler played 62 games in 5 years...
Accuracy Chad>> Jay
Leadership Chad> Jay
Decision making Chad> Jay
Velocity on the Ball Chad < Jay
Atheletcism Chad<< Jay
They Both had alot of heart,both need trick plays and playaction and playmakers around them to make the big plays...

Henne won't be a rookie. 

Huge difference between starting your rookie year and starting year 2.  Very difficult for a rookie to learn the entire playbook in camp.  And even if Henne doesn't have it completely memorized now, there is absolutely no reason for him not have it mastered before camp starts. 

Word

If we want to start Henne, we need to take a serious look at what teams like the Falcons and Ravens have done right with their young quarterbacks: Stick to the running game, solid offensive line with lots of max-protect and keep things simple for the quarterback.

The last part is, for some reason, very difficult for coaches to understand, yet almost all examples of young, successful quarterbacks were allowed the luxury of simplicity early in their career (think Roethlisberger).

It's very difficult for a college quarterback to go through all the reads required in a fully-fledged NFL offense. If we do go with Henne, we need to accept that and NOT run the same offense we would have, had Pennington been under center.

Both pre-snap and post-snap reads need to be reduced. The Falcons and Ravens accomplished both by using plenty of max-protect. Keeping more blockers in reduces the need to make blitz-adjustments, givers the QB more time in the pocket and does away with a bunch of receiver reads the quarterback would never get through anyway (and the opposing team would know this with some simple scouting).

I read somewhere that no team ran on 3rd and 10+ more than the Falcons and they did so like 50% of the time. On first and 10, both teams ran around 2/3rds of the time. That kind of dedication to the run really helps a young quarterback settle in and develop.

Sure, if your young QB has a canon of an arm, it's perfectly reasonable to take shots down the field (which Flacco does), but it should never be forced.

For starters,That's the offense that Parcells,Henne,Sparano,and Ireland wanted to run this year...They wanted it to be a run first,throw off of playaction..They envisioned a Titans,Panthers type offense....Youth/in expierence up front people stacking 9 in the box,made them resort to the short passing game....

[fyo]

Huge difference between starting your rookie year and starting year 2.  Very difficult for a rookie to learn the entire playbook in camp.  And even if Henne doesn't have it completely memorized now, there is absolutely no reason for him not have it mastered before camp starts. 

It's not about knowing the playbook. That's a very, very small part of it.

The ability to read defenses, make adjustments, go through all your receiver reads (and not just throw to the guy you KNOW is going to be open in college) is a huge hurdle - one many college quarterbacks never clear.

Sure, there's a difference between a rookie QB and one who's had a whole year on the bench (in the same system). A big difference.

That doesn't mean a YOUNG, INEXPERIENCED quarterback shouldn't be "coddled" initially. Quarterbacks are a huge investment and risking it by forcing your quarterback into the deep end too soon is just stupid.

The point is, you can't just suddenly decide from day-to-day that your offense was too complicated for your quarterback and simplify it. It's a complete offensive system and needs to be part of the plan from day 1.

The playbook we used this season, regardless of how well Henne knows it, wouldn't be well-suited for him. We pretty much NEVER used max-protect schemes. The playbook required Pennington to read the defense very well, adjust and then go through numerous reads. To expect Henne to be capable of that from the onset is completely unrealistic.

If we go with Henne (or even if we just want the OPTION of going with him), I think our #1 need in the draft / off-season becomes O-Line. Donald Thomas is back, which should be an improvement. Justin Smiley is back from IR, which is an improvement over Alleman. Even so, Carey's a free agent, so that needs to be addressed - and Ndukwe and Smiley weren't great to begin with. With Shawm Murphy and Alleman our best backups (plus Ndukwe is Thomas can win his spot back), we have very little qualified depth. Our O-Line was pretty bad this year, especially in run-blocking, and it really needs to improve.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

^^^  I disagree.  NEP didn't water down  the offense for Cassel. 

And while it is true their is more to developing than learning the playbook.  Put you don't need to play to learn how to read defenses.  You learn how to do it in the film room, you get experience on the field but you learn to read them in the film room.   

I can't say whether the Dolphins should start Penny or Henne.  But I will say this, if they need to water down the offense for Henne, they should start Penny and give Henne another year of study in the film room. 

[run_to_win]

^^^  I disagree.  NEP didn't water down  the offense for Cassel. 

Fourth season vs second season is a huge difference.

Even after 3 seasons on the bench Cassell improved over the course of the season. 

^^^  Put you don't need to play to learn how to read defenses.  You learn how to do it in the film room, you get experience on the field but you learn to read them in the film room.

Of course, because reading defenses in the film room is exactly like doing it during a game.

Gotta go - I'm scheduled to perform brain surgery this afternoon and need to watch the medical channel to learn how to do it.