Jim Rice! Jim Rice! Jim Rice!

[Sunstroke]

hey dude I'm not full of shit unless its taco night   

And in an amazingly adroit display of topic turning, with a double entendric twist (difficulty rating 5.8, despite entendric not actually being a real word)...If there was a hall of fame for tacos and burritos, Rice would never get my vote.  Outside the confines of a tortilla, however, he was a much overdue no-brainer.

[Phishfan]

If there was a hall of fame for tacos and burritos, Rice would never get my vote. 

Don't be so quick to judge. Taco night at the Rice house could go down as one of the best in history.

[MaineDolFan]

Naw just not relevant to the original thread...hey dude I'm not full of shit unless its taco night 

But it kind of is.  Your stance on Jimmy not getting in was based on you watching him play and thinking he was good versus great.  The problem with that opinion is that he retired when you were two and it was physically impossible for you to remember how he changed a game.  Watching tapes of a game is simply not the same.  And, again, you don't have to see the guy play live to have an opinion.  You are part of a loud group that thinks Rice doesn't deserve it and don't need to justify it beyond that.  Not what I am saying at all.

But saying "I saw him play..."  Well, that just ain't true.

Not to pile on, but that statement does matter.

The one guy still "out there" that NEEDS to be in now is Andre Dawson.  I would love to discuss people's feelings on Dawson.

[Tenshot13]

But it kind of is.  Your stance on Jimmy not getting in was based on you watching him play and thinking he was good versus great.  The problem with that opinion is that he retired when you were two and it was physically impossible for you to remember how he changed a game.  Watching tapes of a game is simply not the same.  And, again, you don't have to see the guy play live to have an opinion.  You are part of a loud group that thinks Rice doesn't deserve it and don't need to justify it beyond that.  Not what I am saying at all.

But saying "I saw him play..."  Well, that just ain't true.

Not to pile on, but that statement does matter.

The one guy still "out there" that NEEDS to be in now is Andre Dawson.  I would love to discuss people's feelings on Dawson.

I was 7 when he retired...anyways I see your point Maine...You're saying there are some intangibles that the record books don't justify...I do think he should get in because of his merits you mentioned earlier (MVPs and the such) because that is pretty impressive...I don't think he should get in because of his stats not being the typical HOF stats...do you think your biased because he was on the Redsox?

I agree with you that Dawson should be in...in fact I think he should have been in before Rice, or at least at the same time....whether you want to argue with me about Rice or not, I do remember Dawson and how fearsome a hitter he was, plus he has better stats than Rice, but with more years in the league...longevity should count for something, seeing as he was pretty consistent during those years.

[SportsChick]

You speak of Dawson being a fearsome hitter when Rice was the same thing in his time.

[MaineDolFan]

If we're comparing Rice and Dawson, as hitters...

Dawson hit 438 career home runs.  He had 1,591 RBI. 

Jim Rice had 383 and 1,451.

Dawson played for 20 seasons, Rice for 16. 

In four seasons Dawson only hit 55 more home runs and 140 RBI.  Seeing that Rice averaged 30 / 133 per year...his numbers would have far and away exceeded Dawson's.  Dawson's career OBP was pretty bad, actually.

Hitting wise, it's not even close.  Rice's career BA was .298 and Dawson's was .279.

Rice was a much more complete hitter than Dawson, although Dawson was very good at the plate in his own right.  The thing is that where Dawson fell slightly short at the plate he made up with eight gold gloves and 20 steals (average) per season. 

Rice was a GREAT hitter, one of the game's best.  Power, average, Rice did it all.  And he was a GOOD defender.

Dawson was a GOOD hitter and a GREAT defender...along with being a great baserunner.  He changed games in completely different ways.

The Hawk needs to be in.

[StL FinFan]

I hated Andre Dawson because he played against the Cardinals a lot.  If fans of rival teams hate you, you must be good.    Yes, he will make it to the HOF.

[SportsChick]

I agree 110% that Dawson belongs in, sooner rather than later. This 15th try stuff is BS. If you were not an HOF in year 2 why are you suddenly a HOFer in year 15?

[EDGECRUSHER]

The thing about Rice is that his numbers outside of Fenway were VERY pedestrian. Like, Alex Rios pedestrian. That's solid for an outfielder, I guess, but it certainly isn't Hall worthy. These questions will also plague Todd Helton, who at the age of 34 seems just about done.

You have to take eras into account, so that's why he got in, but he was a serious Fenway Hitter and doesn't appear to be much else. In fact, 4 years in a row he led the league in double plays and for two seasons he led the majors in outs. Of course, that is balanced by his league leading stats in homeruns, sometimes triples and doubles. In 1978, he was 4th in outs, which is VERY bad, however, he also:

Won the MVP
Played 163 games and led the majors
Led the league in Slugging
Led the league in OPS
Led the league in At Bats
Led the league in Plate Appearances
"" "" HR
"" "" RBI
"" "" Adjusted OPS+
"" "" Runs Created

F it, I am stopping, just way too many league leader things. Point is, when Rice hit the ball, he usually crushed it. Problem is, he never was one to NOT swing the bat.