Kurt Warner: Hall of Famer?

[Spider-Dan]

About midway through the season, I said that if Warner got the Cards to the Super Bowl, that's a punched ticket to Canton.  If he manages to win that game, I think he'll be a first-balloter.

What are the arguments against?

[Tepop84]

The arguments against?  200+ fumbles and interceptions in only 110 games.  His St. Louis teams were ridiculously talented. Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald could make any qb look good. I don't think he should get in, but I think he will somehow.

[Spider-Dan]

His St. Louis teams were ridiculously talented.

Didn't seem to do much before or after he was there.

Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald could make any qb look good.

...except Josh McCown, Shaun King, Matt Leinart, and Tim Rattay?

[Tepop84]

Didn't seem to do much before or after he was there.

They started sucking while Warner was still there, so pretty much your argument doesn't make any sense.  (oops 2002 Warner was 0-6 as a starter but the rams finished 7-9, lol at your argument)

Are you going to ignore all his terrible years in NY, and Arizona. He had 3 good years in St. Louis in his career.  He doesn't deserve the HOF.

[Spider-Dan]

They started sucking while Warner was still there, so pretty much your argument doesn't make any sense.  (oops 2002 Warner was 0-6 as a starter but the rams finished 7-9, lol at your argument)

Oh, you mean the season where he broke a finger in his hand and Martz continued to put him on the field for three games?  The one season that is a dramatic variance from every other season he's played?  Great example.  It's a good thing 99-01 don't count, or anything.  The whole 2 MVPs (plus SB MVP) in three seasons thing probably isn't relevant.

Are you going to ignore all his terrible years in NY, and Arizona.

Eli Manning has yet to put up a passer rating (for the entire season) that matches Warner's from the one year he was there.  As for the Cardinals... Bill Bidwell owns them!  It's been well-established for years that Arizona is where players go to die.  The mere fact that Warner took the Cardinals to the Super Bowl is one of the major reasons why he should be considered.

Warner has been stuck on garbage teams since he left the Rams.  But even on these trashy squads, he's consistently put up a passer rating in the mid-high 80s every year (save this one, where he posted a 96.9).

He had 3 good years in St. Louis in his career.  He doesn't deserve the HOF.

And again, this year doesn't count, right?

Warner did not have "3 good years" in STL.  He had three of the greatest years of any QB ever.

But most importantly, Warner has taken two of the most consistently horrible teams in the league (STL and ARI) and elevated them to Super Bowl status.  It's not like he won with the Steelers or the Cowboys; these are teams with many, many years of entrenched futility, and he turned them both into contenders.

[bsmooth]

He definately deserved the MVP over Manning

[Tepop84]

Oh, you mean the season where he broke a finger in his hand and Martz continued to put him on the field for three games?  The one season that is a dramatic variance from every other season he's played?  Great example.  It's a good thing 99-01 don't count, or anything.  The whole 2 MVPs (plus SB MVP) in three seasons thing probably isn't relevant.
Eli Manning has yet to put up a passer rating (for the entire season) that matches Warner's from the one year he was there.  As for the Cardinals... Bill Bidwell owns them!  It's been well-established for years that Arizona is where players go to die.  The mere fact that Warner took the Cardinals to the Super Bowl is one of the major reasons why he should be considered.

Warner has been stuck on garbage teams since he left the Rams.  But even on these trashy squads, he's consistently put up a passer rating in the mid-high 80s every year (save this one, where he posted a 96.9).
And again, this year doesn't count, right?

Warner did not have "3 good years" in STL.  He had three of the greatest years of any QB ever.

But most importantly, Warner has taken two of the most consistently horrible teams in the league (STL and ARI) and elevated them to Super Bowl status.  It's not like he won with the Steelers or the Cowboys; these are teams with many, many years of entrenched futility, and he turned them both into contenders.

LOL, 99-01 are not the greatest years of any qb ever.  lol.  He has only started 85 games in the NFL, yet has over 200 fumbles and interceptions.  His season in NY was pretty good, 12 fumbles in 10 games.  the 99-01 rams had so much offensive talent you could take any average qb and he would have put up as numbers similar to Warner. JC, Trent green started 5 games in 2000 and threw 16 tds.  Doesn't take a genius to figure out that maybe it was Faulk, Holt, Bruce, Az Hakim etc.  Yea, he has brought the Cardinals to the super bowl, but he hasn't put up that great of numbers this year even though he has larry fitzgerald and anquan boldin.

[fyo]

Warner is, in my opinion, one of the greatest pocket passers of all time. If you can protect him, he's awesome. Let him get hit and he coughs up the ball.

To get in the HoF, you have to either have dominated at your position over many years or have redefined the position. (Or be liked enough by the Peter Kings of the world).

I think the argument for Warner goes via "The Greatest Show on Turf". That type of completely, insanely pass-oriented play (which also happens to be exactly what the Cardinals did in the regular season this year). They Rams had 500+ points in each of those 3 years (no other team has had even 2 consecutive 500+ seasons), were first in total offense all three years, set a record for total offense (yards) and most passing yards in 2000 - plus of course the Super Bowl records and MVP awards...

He's very much a "system quarterback", though, and I think that's the biggest knock against him. I really do think he's better that anyone of "his time" when given a chance in a system like the one in St. Louis or the one in Arizona now. Make him scramble for his life once in a while and he plummets way down the list.

Should he get in? I think he's borderline simply because he has so many weaknesses. Being able to excel only in a very narrow set of circumstances isn't a good thing, even if he is the best given those circumstances.

[Tepop84]

only 2 qbs who played after 1970 who are in the hall of fame started less than 150 regular season games.  Roger Staubach had 114 and Joe Namath 130.  Warner has 85.  I don't think there is any reason he should be in the hall of fame.

[Orlando Rays]

He definately deserved the MVP over Manning

I think we can all agree on that one.

As for the Hall... I think he'll get in if he pulls this off.

[jtex316]

Kurt Warner will be in the Hall-Of-Fame - reaching his 3rd Super Bowl (2nd different team) has locked it in.

He has 10+ NFL seasons
He also has Arena Championships and played in NFL Eurpoe (remember this is the PRO FOOTBALL HOF, not the NFL HOF - Warren Moon's non-NFL days were heralded for his HOF ceremony / induction)
He has 2 NFL MVP's
He has 1 Super Bowl
Does he also have a Super Bowl MVP from 1999?
He will be playing in his 3rd Super Bowl

If INTs and Fumbles are counting against a QB going to the HOF, Brett Favre has no chance to get in. (And after two weeks, Kurt Warner will have played in more Super Bowls and may very well have more rings than Favre, yet he is a lock.)

[Tepop84]

Kurt Warner will be in the Hall-Of-Fame - reaching his 3rd Super Bowl (2nd different team) has locked it in.

He has 10+ NFL seasons
He also has Arena Championships and played in NFL Eurpoe (remember this is the PRO FOOTBALL HOF, not the NFL HOF - Warren Moon's non-NFL days were heralded for his HOF ceremony / induction)
He has 2 NFL MVP's
He has 1 Super Bowl
Does he also have a Super Bowl MVP from 1999?
He will be playing in his 3rd Super Bowl

If INTs and Fumbles are counting against a QB going to the HOF, Brett Favre has no chance to get in. (And after two weeks, Kurt Warner will have played in more Super Bowls and may very well have more rings than Favre, yet he is a lock.)

Brett Favre 253 regular season starts
Kurt Warner 101 regular season starts

lol.  hilarious that you would say because favre is a lock warner should be.

[Brian Fein]

BS

Super Bowls don't earn you the hall of fame.

Five years after he retires will you look back on Kurt Warner and think "wow, that guy was one of the greatest QB's in NFL history"

If the answer is no, then he doesn't deserve the Hall of Fame.

We have to get away from this mentality that people who win super bowls automatically deserve to be in the hall of fame.  Its not how you measure greatness of an individual.

[jtex316]

Brett Favre 253 regular season starts
Kurt Warner 85 regular season starts

lol.  hilarious that you would say because favre is a lock warner should be.

Donovan McNabb has a lot of regular season starts. Is his fat ass going to the hall of fame?

[jtex316]

BS

Super Bowls don't earn you the hall of fame.

Five years after he retires will you look back on Kurt Warner and think "wow, that guy was one of the greatest QB's in NFL history"

If the answer is no, then he doesn't deserve the Hall of Fame.

We have to get away from this mentality that people who win super bowls automatically deserve to be in the hall of fame.  Its not how you measure greatness of an individual.

Was Warren Moon one of the greatest QB's in NFL history? That's VERY VERY Debatable...but he also played in the AFL or CFL or whatever, and HOF voters took that into consideration. Warner won in Arena, played in NFLE, and took 2 teams to the super bowl, winning at least 1 for the moment. He is also a 2-time NFL MVP and a Super Bowl MVP if I am correct.  That's a good bag of credentials right there.

And to anyone who brings up seasons played or games started or NFL years of service - another player that I think is a bum is Terell Davis, He only played 4 actual NFL seasons, even though he officially played 8 somehow. Yet he had 1 MVP and 1 2,000 yard season and 2 Super Bowls, everyone wets their panties about this total hack bum RB who played behind the most under-rated OL of all-time. Yet he holds no rushing records, starts records, consecutive games streak, and other irrelevant bullshit...do you not want him in the HOF either?

Phil Simms is in the HOF, but when I "look back", I do not rank him or think of him as one of the best QB's of all-time. But he WON. That IS huge and can get you over the hump in a hurry. And it is definitely a factor in HOF voting - we definitely don't need to get out of the winning mentality, no sir.