Another government Stimulas package

[raptorsfan29]

did anyone catch the 800+ billion dollar stimulus package the democrats in congress want to pass.

No offense, but when history has showed that a stimulus package doesn't work, why the hell are they trying to pass it in congress. I guess my financial markets teacher was right. "The elected individuals that are leaving were dumb, and the people we elected appear to be even dumber"

Why doesn't the government just go from a payroll tax system to a consumption tax system (I.E fair tax) and give people more money in their pockets. It seems like the logical way to go, but of course the government doesn't seem to understand logic.

[Dphins4me]

did anyone catch the 800+ billion dollar stimulus package the democrats in congress want to pass.

No offense, but when history has showed that a stimulus package doesn't work, why the hell are they trying to pass it in congress. I guess my financial markets teacher was right. "The elected individuals that are leaving were dumb, and the people we elected appear to be even dumber"

Why doesn't the government just go from a payroll tax system to a consumption tax system (I.E fair tax) and give people more money in their pockets. It seems like the logical way to go, but of course the government doesn't seem to understand logic.

Why are they doing it?  Because its not a stimulus package.  Its a socialist plan.  Just check out where the money is going.  Plus only about 15% of the money will be in the economy in the next two years.

Another thing.  Wasn't one of Obama's concern with the patriot act was it was passed to quickly & no one had time to digest it.  Yet, now they are already voting on this package?

I'm growing more & more concern with the direction of Gov.  How can the people take back this country?

[raptorsfan29]

illegal means, we might have to pull a french revolution. completely tear down the government structure and rebuild. continually election idiots isn't helping us out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpBE1z69biY&feature=channel_page, just a little bit i found, someone might like it.

[Frimp]

It passed in the House...But not a single Republican voted for it.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it....

Look for the economy to get worse, many many more jobs lost, and many more people drooling over Obama while not having a clue what is going on in the country...But I'm sure every single one of them will be able to tell you whats happening on American Idol.

[Dphins4me]

  This is stimulus?

$25 million for new ATV trails;
$400 million for the National Endowment for the Arts;
$400 million for global warming research;
$335 million for the Centers for Disease Control to combat sexually-transmitted diseases
$650 million coupons to subsidize TV viewers for digital television conversion.

The Congressional Budget Office says borrowing $820 billion will cost $347 billion more in interest, which of course pushes the total cost of the stimulus package to more than $1 trillion.

If paid back by 2020?    Paid back 3 Yrs after Obama leaves office if re-elected.  Anyone want to bet 99% of the pay back happens in 2018, 2019?  There is that 10 Yr plan I have said they all have.

[Dave Gray]

I'd like to see more of the money go towards construction and infrastructure.

[Dphins4me]

I'd like to see more of the money go towards construction and infrastructure.

   30 Billion is going there.   Not much when you consider we are talking 820 billion. 

[Dave Gray]

I'm a little disappointed that no Republicans voted for it.  ...not because there were none -- that's fine, but it's kinda strange that a lot of things were added or removed specifically to please them and it didn't even swing one vote.

Hopefully changes will be made to make everyone happier when it gets to the Senate.

[Spider-Dan]

The GOP wants to make sure that the Dems own this bill.  They did from the start, and the reason why is simple: they (the Republicans) have nothing to gain by supporting it.  If it works, Obama and the Democrats will get all of the credit, so why not vote No in lockstep and set yourself up for a big boost if it fails?

You can make the argument that they should have put the needs of the nation ahead of cynical politics, but it's mostly semantic; the bill was certain to pass in the House with or without the votes of the GOP.  The Dems had to make concessions (even while knowing that the GOP is going to bail anyway) in order to make it appear like they are trying to be bipartisan.  But House Republicans are paper tigers anyway; the House Democrats can steamroll them at will.  The real test will come in the Senate, where "No" votes will actually be held accountable if the package fails.

Politically, the best outcome for the GOP (with regards to the various bailouts/stimuli) is:

1) they cram in as many tax cuts for businesses and the wealthy as they can manage
2) Every Dem Senator votes Yes
3) GOP Senators vote "No" in overwhelming numbers, with a few GOP Senators (in safe seats for their next election) contributing just enough "Yes" votes to get it to pass
4) everything fails horribly and the nation goes into a (worse) downward spiral
5) 2012

However, 3) and 4) are the important part.  Given the results of the last two elections, if there are enough GOP "No" votes to actually kill the package, and the nation then continues to crater, the GOP will be blamed as the obstructionists who prevented Obama from fixing the problem because of petty partisanship.  And the GOP definitely doesn't want that.

So ideally, they want to get the maximum possible "No" votes that they can without actually stopping the bill from passing.

[Dphins4me]

The GOP wants to make sure that the Dems own this bill.  They did from the start, and the reason why is simple: they (the Republicans) have nothing to gain by supporting it.  If it works, Obama and the Democrats will get all of the credit, so why not vote No in lockstep and set yourself up for a big boost if it fails?

You can make the argument that they should have put the needs of the nation ahead of cynical politics, but it's mostly semantic; the bill was certain to pass in the House with or without the votes of the GOP.  The Dems had to make concessions (even while knowing that the GOP is going to bail anyway) in order to make it appear like they are trying to be bipartisan.  But House Republicans are paper tigers anyway; the House Democrats can steamroll them at will.  The real test will come in the Senate, where "No" votes will actually be held accountable if the package fails.

Politically, the best outcome for the GOP (with regards to the various bailouts/stimuli) is:

1) they cram in as many tax cuts for businesses and the wealthy as they can manage
2) Every Dem Senator votes Yes
3) GOP Senators vote "No" in overwhelming numbers, with a few GOP Senators (in safe seats for their next election) contributing just enough "Yes" votes to get it to pass
4) everything fails horribly and the nation goes into a (worse) downward spiral
5) 2012

However, 3) and 4) are the important part.  Given the results of the last two elections, if there are enough GOP "No" votes to actually kill the package, and the nation then continues to crater, the GOP will be blamed as the obstructionists who prevented Obama from fixing the problem because of petty partisanship.  And the GOP definitely doesn't want that.

So ideally, they want to get the maximum possible "No" votes that they can without actually stopping the bill from passing.

  While being correct on why they did.  Where is the stimulus? 

[MaineDolFan]

  While being correct on why they did.  Where is the stimulus? 

Right here.  Stimulated yet?

[Phishfan]

  This is stimulus?

$25 million for new ATV trails;
$400 million for the National Endowment for the Arts;
$400 million for global warming research;
$335 million for the Centers for Disease Control to combat sexually-transmitted diseases
$650 million coupons to subsidize TV viewers for digital television conversion.

The Congressional Budget Office says borrowing $820 billion will cost $347 billion more in interest, which of course pushes the total cost of the stimulus package to more than $1 trillion.

If paid back by 2020?    Paid back 3 Yrs after Obama leaves office if re-elected.  Anyone want to bet 99% of the pay back happens in 2018, 2019?  There is that 10 Yr plan I have said they all have.

Convenient you left out that almost $300B is going towards tax cuts for individuals and businesses.

[Dphins4me]

Convenient you left out that almost $300B is going towards tax cuts for individuals and businesses.

From the Wall Street Journal.

$275 billion in tax relief offered in the stimulus package focuses more on lower-income families. 

So the middle American is basically left out?

I didn't conveniently leave it out.  We are talking 820 billion. Not 325 Billion. More is going to the BS stuff like new ATV trails ( WTF? )

I'm focusing on the pork belly items.

Here is the Bill if you are interested in reading it.

Recorvery Bill

Why are groups like ACORN eligible for 4.2 Billion?

Why is Amtrak getting 300 million?  When is the last time Amtrak turned a profit?

Yea, lets not focus on these pork belly items.


I found this on the net.  Not sure if it is 100% accurate.  It was on a MB when I googled the plan

$1 billion for expenses necessary for advanced battery manufacturing

$4.5 billion to modernize the nation’s electricity grid

$1 billion for the Advanced Battery Loan Guarantee Program

$2.4 billion to demonstrate “carbon capture and sequestration technologies”

$400 million for the Advanced Research Projects Agency (Science)

$500 million for “Defense Environmental Cleanup”

$1 billion for construction and repair of border facilities and land ports of entry

$6 billion for energy efficiency projects on government buildings

$600 million to buy and lease government plug-in and alternative fuel vehicles

$426 million in small business loans

$100 million for “non-intrusive detection technology to be deployed at sea ports of entry

$150 million for repair and construction at land border ports of entry

$500 million for explosive detection systems for aviation security

$150 million for alteration or removal of obstructive bridges

$200 million for FEMA Emergency Food and Shelter program

$325 million for Interior Department road, bridge and trail repair projects

$300 million for road and bridge work in Wildlife Refuges and Fish Hatcheries

$1.7 billion for “critical deferred maintenance” in the National Park System

$200 million to revitalize the National Mall in Washington, D.C.

$100 million for National Park Service Centennial Challenge programs

$200 million for repair of U.S. Geological Survey facilities

$500 million for repair and replacement of schools, jails, roads, bridges, housing and more for Bureau of Indian Affairs

$800 million for Superfund programs

$200 million for leaking underground storage tank cleanup

$8.4 billion in “State and Tribal Assistance Grants”

$650 million in “Capital Improvement and Maintenance” at the Agriculture Dept.

$850 million for “Wildland Fire Management”

$550 million for Indian Health facilties

$150 million for deferred maintenance at the Smithsonian museums

$50 million in grants to fund “arts projects and activities which preserve jobs in the non-profit arts sector threatened by declines in philanthropic and other support during the current economic downturn” through the National Endowment for the Arts

$1.2 billion in grants to states for youth summer jobs programs and other activities

$1 billion for states in dislocated worker employment and training activities

$500 million for the dislocated workers assistance national reserve

$80 million for the enforcement of worker protection laws and regulations related to infrastructure and unemployment insurance investments

$300 million for “construction, rehabilitation and acquisition of Job Corps Centers”

$250 million for public health centers

$1 billion for renovation and repair of health centers

$600 million for nurse, physician and dentist training

$462 million for renovation work at the Centers for Disease Control

$1.5 billion for “National Center for Research Resources”

$500 million for “Buildlings and Facilties” at the National Institutes of Health in suburban Washington, D.C.

$700 million for “comparative effectiveness research” on prescription drugs

$1 billion for Low-Income Home Energy Assistance

$2 billion in Child Care and Development Block Grants for states

$1 billion for Head Start programs

$1.1 billion for Early Head Start programs

$100 million for Social Security research programs

$200 million for “Aging Services Programs”

$2 billion for “Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology”

$430 million for public health/social services emergency funds

$2.3 billion for the Centers for Disease Control for a variety of programs

$5.5 billion in targeted education grants

$5.5 billion in “education finance incentive grants”

$2 billion in “school improvement grants”

$13.6 billion for Individuals with Disabilities Education Act

$250 million for statewide education data systems

$14 billion for school modernization, renovation and repair

$160 million for AmeriCorps grants

$400 million for the construction and costs to establish a new “National Computer Center” for the Social Security Administration

$500 million to improve processing of disability and retirement claims

$920 million for Army housing and child development centers

$350 million for Navy and Marine Corps housing and child development centers

$280 million in Air Force housing and child development centers

$3.75 billion in military hospital and surgery center construction

$140 million in Army National Guard construction projects

$70 million in Air National Guard construction projects

$100 million in Army Reserve construction projects

$30 million in Navy Reserve construction projects

$60 million in Air Force Reserve construction projects

$950 million for VA Medical Facilities

$50 million for repairs for military cemeteries

$120 million for a backup information management facility for the State Department

$98 million for National Cybersecurity Initiative

$3 billion for “Grants-in-Aid for Airports”

$300 million for Indian Reservation roads

$300 million for Amtrak capital needs

$800 million for national railroad assets or infrastructure repairs, upgrades

$5.4 billion in federal transit grants

$2 billion in infrastructure development for subways and commuter railways

$5 billion for public housing capital

$1 billion in competitive housing grants

$2.5 billion for energy efficiency upgrades in public housing

$500 million in Native American Housing Block Grants

$4.1 billion to help communities deal with foreclosed homes

$1.5 billion in homeless prevention activities

$79 billion in education funds for states

$400 million for the construction and costs to establish a new “National Computer Center” for the Social Se

[Phishfan]

There is a widely believed theory that any extra money going to the wealthy is going to end up being put into savings. Lower income people are actually going to need to spend the money so that is going to help the economy. Imagine that, a stimulus package actually created to stimulate the economy. What a weird idea.

Where do you get the ACORN stat?

Amtrak is basically run by the DOT. Should the postal service not receive government money?

[MaineDolFan]

Amtrak is also a vital transportation need for a lot of people in order to commute.