Why I hate religion!

[Dave Gray]

Because I view faith as a net negative.  "Faith" is simply believing in something without evidence.  We see it as a good thing, but I think that it is not.

I am ultimately on the side of (what I consider to be) truth.  That's what I am looking for.  Even if faith gets people through the day, I want no part of it.  I don't want to believe in lies just because it makes me feel better.  Faith is a drug.

I honestly believe that if you think that Jesus is the son of God, that you have something wrong with your brain.  It doesn't mean I don't like you or can't be your friend or see you an as equal, but I think that you have a serious deep-seeded mental problem.  The only reason that it doesn't negatively effect you more than it does is because it's a mass-psychosis. 

I suffered from this same psychosis myself, through brainwashing as a child.  Only through years of "self-therapy" could I let go of it.  I wasn't dumb when I was a child.  But I had let my environment convince me of something completely absurd and irrational through repetition.  Even in my teens, when I knew deep-down the belief system I was raised with was totally asinine, I still had trouble letting go of that safety net.

[Defense54]

Last week the pope a former youth nazi himself, lifted the 20 year excommunication of a   bishop best know for his denying the holocaust. 

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=6722245

This week he promoted to bishop the cleric who said he was convinced that the death and destruction of Hurricane Katrina earlier that year was "divine retribution" for New Orleans' tolerance of homosexuals and laid-back sexual attitudes.

http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2009/01/pope_promotes_cleric_who_calle.html

I don't know if there is a god or not.  (I am agnostic.)  But I am absolutely certain these evil idiots are not his messengers if he exists!   
 

LOL!  What a moron. Everyone knows it was President Bush that created katrina becuase he hates Black people............. ::)Idiots..............

[MaineDolFan]

I honestly believe that if you think that Jesus is the son of God, that you have something wrong with your brain. 

So what you are saying is that you're Jewish?  Sorry...couldn't resist...

Because I view faith as a net negative.  Faith is a drug.

I'm not understanding how this is a bad thing, Dave.  I'm really not.  "Stephanie" sends her husband, her life love, off to war and he comes back in a body bag.  The one thing that keeps her from falling apart in front of her kids is her faith that they'll be together again in another life.  That "drug" is allowing her to get through a day, whether it's just a strong mask of denial or not isn't the point.  

"Steve and Mary" are sitting at the doctor's with their three year old and they find out that child has Leukemia.  Perhaps their faith is the only thing allowing them to stay strong and see this situation through.

How is that a "net negative?"  Not everyone has the inner strength to deal with something that traumatic head on.  If your faith gives you the strength to deal with that situation, so be it.  Give 'em all that "faith drug" that they need.  

If you tell me that "Steve and Mary" have so much faith in their God that they won't allow the doctors to treat that three year old based upon their faith that "God will provide" - I'm right there in the car riding along with you.  But what is so God awful about that couple drawing general faith that things will work out?  And, if they don't, that the three year old that they loved more than life itself is in a better place?

Isn't life painful enough without coping tactics?  I view faith as a source of strength.  I think that your view point borders a little on arrogance, to be honest, as I'm sure you believe that mine borders on lunacy.  So I guess we have a common ground there!    Either way, it's a good discussion.

[StL FinFan]

Do you have faith in others?  Trust? Love?  You can't see or prove any of those either. 

[CF DolFan]

Hebrews 11:1 (NIV)

Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

To have faith is to have confidence in something or someone.  Miracles do not produce faith but strong faith is developed by obedience to Jesus ...  although miracles often confirm one’s faith. Faith is a principle of action and not just wishful thinking.

[YoFuggedaboutit]

Hebrews 11:1 (NIV)

Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

To have faith is to have confidence in something or someone.  Miracles do not produce faith but strong faith is developed by obedience to Jesus ...  although miracles often confirm one’s faith. Faith is a principle of action and not just wishful thinking.

Amen CF!!!!!!  Well done!!!!  Preach on!!!!!!

[Dave Gray]

Do you have faith in others?  Trust? Love?  You can't see or prove any of those either. 

I believe that faith is a homograph.  (A word that means two different things.)  I don't believe that faith in God is the same word when applied to faith in another person.

But even it if were, I don't think that it applies.  Love is an emotion, so that's not really relevant.  Trust is something that is gained through positive repetition.  It's not the same context.  There actually is evidence to support the decision to have faith in your friends or family.  They've given you positive repetition prior to that point.


As for Maine's stuff --

I'm sure that I sound arrogant.  But I'm just telling you what I believe.  I'm not saying that I'm better than you because of it.

And whether or not faith is helpful is debatable....totally.  But it's still lying to yourself.  Should you lie to yourself to make yourself feel better?  I guess it depends on the person.  For me, I've chosen no.  But, in the past, I've chosen other things.  I've chosen to pretend I was loved when I was not, because it was easier than facing the truth.  I'm not infallible with stuff like that.

I also question whether faith actually gets anyone through anything.  I think that it may be Dumbo's magic feather.  Ultimately, someone who copes is doing it through their own inner power -- not some mythical force.

And I will concede in some cases, that faith does help things.  That's why I say NET negative.  I think that faith also causes much, much damage to our society and our world, moreso than it helps.

[Dphins4me]

God, Devil...two sides of the same fictional character.

Man is responsible for the good in the world, and man is responsible for the bad. Period.

Could not disagree anymore..

Things started falling apart when they started taking God out of everything & started patting themselves on their back for their own work..

[Dphins4me]

LOL!  What a moron. Everyone knows it was President Bush that created katrina becuase he hates Black people............. ::)Idiots..............

Ever wonder how 2 million people could get out of DC in one day in freezing weather, but 200K could not get out of NO in 85 degree heat with 4 day warning?   

[Dphins4me]

Because I view faith as a net negative.  "Faith" is simply believing in something without evidence.  We see it as a good thing, but I think that it is not.

I am ultimately on the side of (what I consider to be) truth.  That's what I am looking for.  Even if faith gets people through the day, I want no part of it.  I don't want to believe in lies just because it makes me feel better.  Faith is a drug.

I honestly believe that if you think that Jesus is the son of God, that you have something wrong with your brain.  It doesn't mean I don't like you or can't be your friend or see you an as equal, but I think that you have a serious deep-seeded mental problem.  The only reason that it doesn't negatively effect you more than it does is because it's a mass-psychosis. 

I suffered from this same psychosis myself, through brainwashing as a child.  Only through years of "self-therapy" could I let go of it.  I wasn't dumb when I was a child.  But I had let my environment convince me of something completely absurd and irrational through repetition.  Even in my teens, when I knew deep-down the belief system I was raised with was totally asinine, I still had trouble letting go of that safety net.

The greatest thing anyone can do for another is pray for them.  I'll pray that one day you will come around.

[StL FinFan]

It doesn't matter if you believe in God or not because God still believes in you and loves you.

[Dave Gray]

The greatest thing anyone can do for another is pray for them.  I'll pray that one day you will come around.

This is why faith sucks.

If you really want to help them -- help them.  Sitting there with your hands clasped talking to your imaginary friend about them isn't going to amount to a hill of beans.

[SCFinfan]

I understand Hoodie's reasons completely, and at one time, would've probably accepte dthier conclusion.

I do not anymore, for a number of reasons. Benedict has done nothing to show he does not believe the tenets of Mit Brennedner Sorge (German for: "With Burning Sorrow"), a 1939 writtten by Eugenio Cardinale Pacelli (Later Pius XII) encyclical which repudiated Nazi doctrine completely and threatened excommunication to any German Catholic who didn't.  Furthermore, the bishop who was brought back into the churhc last wee was a member of the Society of St. Pius XII (or maybe XI, I forget), a sedecantevist group which had previously been in schism with the church. Benedict's worked for greater ecumenism with dissident Catholic groups, and this is one of the fruits of his labor. A great number of Bishops (and faithful) were brought back into communion with the Church, not merely one imprudent Bishop (who later and formally apologized for his denials).

As far as the other bishop Hoodie mentions, I don't have a problem with a theology which states that God punishes for sin. Nowhere do I see logical or scriptural evidence that he doesn't do so. It is hard to swallow if you don't believe in a God, but otherwise, what can I say. God may very well have done exactly what that Bishop said. As for myself, I dissent from what that Bishop believes, but I am sure I could be wrong.

And as a side note: to anyone arguing with Dave, give it a rest. He doesn't have the slightest clue what he's talking about when it comes to the ontology of morality. To date there is no way to explain the existence of objective morals without positing a Deity. It is simply impossible to do. Yet Dave tells us morality comes from man. How so? How are men in any way objectively good without a God? There is no answer to this question: all you will receive are merely subjective opinions from an individual who is no more objective than the incompetent in the mental asylum.

If anything's a contradiction in terms, it's an atheist trying to explain how good exists without a God. But it is fun to watch them try...   

[Fau Teixeira]

The greatest thing anyone can do for another is pray for them.  I'll pray that one day you will come around.

i'd rather have cash personally

[Fau Teixeira]

It doesn't matter if you believe in God or not because God still believes in you and loves you.

and being infinitely loving he even loves osama bin laden, hitler and charles manson .. and should any of them ask or have asked for forgiveness from god .. they will be forgiven for any and all sins they've committed. and are right now in heaven playing badminton with jesus