Why I hate religion!

[Phishfan]

Ok: simply put,

1. Objective morality cannot exist without God, because no human is capable of promulgating an ad hoc objective morality. (Objective morality is not the same as universal morality, where everyone on earth agrees on something being wrong or right. Instead, objective morality means those morals which if they were transgressed, would result in a real, actual wrong or sin, rather than just being merely wrong in the opinion of a group of men.)

2. But objective morality exists. For example, it is wrong to rape a child, even if the society or culture you're in disagrees.

3. Therefore, God exists.

I look forward to your response, Phish. I bet ya can't beat me.

Sounds like a theology lesson to me. I don't have to beat you because I don't think you were even on topic. You are now talking morality which was not what we were discussing (bet you didn't think anyone would catch on). We were discussing the existence of good which is different than morality.

[CF DolFan]

I'm making light of it, sure -- but there's a real question.

Are there certain things that get you in to hell, even if you're a good person in other ways.

I follow the rules of Christianity, other than the ones specifically tied to the religion -- belief, keeping the sabbath day holy, tithing, etc.

Does breaking the one of not believing in God get me a direct flight, regardless of the rest?  Yes or no?

Yes. Jesus said He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father excpet through Him.  So this means either you are a Christian or your not.  BTW ...  Jesus also points out no one is good except in their own mind but I don't have time to dicuss that now.

[MaineDolFan]

I have to chime in her on something that really ticks me off and it has to do with SCFan stating that his words are proof God exists and dismissing God's physical absence as proof that he doesn't.

I accused Dave of arrogance in a previous post and need to do the same thing here.

SCFan - no matter how you spin it, and YES -- it is SPIN -- nothing on this planet PROVES that God exists.  Nothing.  Not morality, nothing.  Zip, zlich, zero, nada. 

This statement is complete bullshit:

1. Objective morality cannot exist without God, because no human is capable of promulgating an ad hoc objective morality. (Objective morality is not the same as universal morality, where everyone on earth agrees on something being wrong or right. Instead, objective morality means those morals which if they were transgressed, would result in a real, actual wrong or sin, rather than just being merely wrong in the opinion of a group of men.)

2. But objective morality exists. For example, it is wrong to rape a child, even if the society or culture you're in disagrees.

3. Therefore, God exists.

First of all - there are many societies past and present that permit children to be placed into a marriage situation against their will.  Those children are then forced to consumate the marriage - again, against their will, which by definition is RAPE.  So let's toss #2 out the window, shall we?

"Right and wrong" has been passed down from society to society and has been learned and taught like a math lesson.  Studies of early man show that even the most primal of our species understood one simple logic:  work together and succeed, work alone and die.  This was the first stepping stone or building block to a society that contains "objective morality."  It had nothing to do with love for a fellow man.  At the end of the day the laws of society are kept in place out of fear and not a glowing interest of being a good person. 

It is certainly not "proof" that any God exists, that is a fairly laughable and ridiculous statement.

Furthemore - "objective morality" is defined by each society as something completely and utterly different.  Take a stroll into the Congo and tell me that those men are living under those same codes as the people walking down Main Street in your home town? 

There is not one shred of physical proof that God exists, it is either a faith that you believe in or you don't.  As CF said, and as stated in the Bible, free will allows you to either search for God or not.  If you have found him on your personal journey that's great.  But please don't try to spin your way into someone else's mind with your hyperbole.  Faith, in the religious context, is much like love.  You either feel it in your being or you don't.  Stating that your words are "proof" that God exists, and therefore trying to suppress the opinions or others, is mere rhetoric and can be taken as fairly insulting.

Your statement of "Therefore, God exists" is nothing more than pure opinion.  Coupling that with "betcha can't beat me" is not needed.

I think everyone needs to reads Dave's posts very closely.  He isn't judging you, do not judge him.  He is not forcing his beliefs in you, do not force your own on him.

[Gabriel]

I can't believe we're still having this conversation. Nothing written on this board will convince anyone of the merits of religion or atheism. Like Maine said, either you feel it or you don't.

[MaineDolFan]

Basically.

I need to learn how to be less long winded.

[Defense54]

I still think President Bush was racist and we need to find his weather machine to prove it!!

[Dphins4me]

I can't believe we're still having this conversation. Nothing written on this board will convince anyone of the merits of religion or atheism. Like Maine said, either you feel it or you don't.

  You may be correct.   I feel though you might plant the seed in someone that if they get the time on this earth will grow within them.  So anytime someone is asking questions, then you should take the time to try & answer them the best you can or at least lead them to someone who can.   Leading someone to God is the greatest thing you can do for them.

[MaineDolFan]

^^And doing it in the wrong way can easily be one of the most counterproductive things that could possibly be done.

This thread would do nothing in regards to encouraging someone to think outside the box in regards to their religious beliefs, in my honest opinion.

[CF DolFan]

This thread won't change anyone's mind nor will any other thread. Unless God is working in someone's life ... His word falls void.  Nothing we do has an effect on that without the Hand of God. But in saying that ....

1 Peter 3:15-16 (NIV)
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander

[Sunstroke]

Sorry...I swear I couldn't help myself.

[MaineDolFan]

Oh.My.God.


You've got to be kidding me with this shit, Jeff!  Would you please stop?  I have work here to do...

LMFAO...

[Sunstroke]

Man, I honestly laughed for 5 minutes straight when I saw it, and then immediately posted it up here.

If I have any time later, I might bastardize the YMCA lyrics to fit the subject better.

[StL FinFan]

Man, I honestly laughed for 5 minutes straight when I saw it, and then immediately posted it up here.

If I have any time later, I might bastardize the YMCA lyrics to fit the subject better.

It took me a while!

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Sorry...I swear I couldn't help myself.

[Sunstroke]

That's nothing short of beautiful...I'm getting all verklempt here.