Why I hate religion!

[JVides]

There is a reason for being. It's all of the things that make us human. Not the fairy tale that you'll wind up in heaven.  
I think it's scary that for most christians, the only thing keeping them from being an animal is the believe in god. I always thought being human is what seperates us from the animals.

Do you not believe in evolution then? Because if not, then this entire conversation is pointless.

Of course I believe in evolution.  I believe in and enjoy science.  (Aside to Dave - I know that science attempts to explain my issues, but I find them unsatisfactory, and yes, I'm dead serious about asking, since knowing more is always best).  I, however, don't think that science and God are mutually exclusive.  I can't leave the Universe's creation to random chance.  I find it difficult to understand how natural laws, which are so ordered, could come from chaos.  It makes no sense to me.  I think we were given the tools to make our own destinies, the intellect to make our own way.  Hence, we strive to improve and succeed.  I don't know about heaven, and I don't need its existence to be a good man.  I don't fear judgement.  I just want meaning.

[CF DolFan]

Scientology is the same as Christianity, but one has been around for a lot longer.  It's also harder to silence your critics these days (but Scientology still tries).

Scientology = Mormonism but it in no way is even close to Chrtistianity even without archeological eveidence.

How could the lowest people (Jews) silence critics?  That would have been impressive.  Just taking Jesus stories alone ... they were baised on eyewitness accounts without rebuttal.  There is nothing of the same era contradicting Christianity while many Christian eyewtinesses did die.  Dying for hope is one thing but dying for something you "know" is a lie is unexplainable.

[Buddhagirl]

Of course I believe in evolution.  I believe in and enjoy science.  (Aside to Dave - I know that science attempts to explain my issues, but I find them unsatisfactory, and yes, I'm dead serious about asking, since knowing more is always best).  I, however, don't think that science and God are mutually exclusive.  I can't leave the Universe's creation to random chance.  I find it difficult to understand how natural laws, which are so ordered, could come from chaos.  It makes no sense to me.  I think we were given the tools to make our own destinies, the intellect to make our own way.  Hence, we strive to improve and succeed.  I don't know about heaven, and I don't need its existence to be a good man.  I don't fear judgement.  I just want meaning.

And the only way you can get meaning is by believing in god. I gotta say, I don't get it.

[JVides]

But are you willing to kill people based on this? Are you ready to start persucuting those that don't believe the same as you? Take away people's rights because the aliens don't think those people should have rights?

You say this as though these conditions are limited to religion.  Have economics, racial strife, hell, even beautiful faces not launched a thousand ships before?  Slaughter, slavery, despair, etc...are carried on for many, many reasons.  Religious tomes, at least, teach of peace and good will.  Mad men churn a few passages into lunacy and pervert the message, but overall, religion is supposed to preach peace.  To equate all religion to misery is to say the same about science.  After all, did science no bring us the thermo-nuclear bomb?  Wasn't Nobel the creator of dynamite, which helped revolutionize warfare?  Should we hate all things that get perverted for bad use?  Would there be anything left to love?

[Dave Gray]

I know that science attempts to explain my issues, but I find them unsatisfactory, and yes, I'm dead serious about asking, since knowing more is always best.

I'd be interested to hear how you understand it and what you find unsatisfactory.  How I understand it seem to be very sensible.

[Buddhagirl]

You say this as though these conditions are limited to religion.  Have economics, racial strife, hell, even beautiful faces not launched a thousand ships before?  Slaughter, slavery, despair, etc...are carried on for many, many reasons.  Religious tomes, at least, teach of peace and good will.  Mad men churn a few passages into lunacy and pervert the message, but overall, religion is supposed to preach peace.  To equate all religion to misery is to say the same about science.  After all, did science no bring us the thermo-nuclear bomb?  Wasn't Nobel the creator of dynamite, which helped revolutionize warfare?  Should we hate all things that get perverted for bad use?  Would there be anything left to love?

Whoa there...You're taking my statement out of context. I was replying to Brian asking about the believe in aliens and what difference there is between that and religion. That's why I said that. Anything can be used for evil.

[JVides]

And the only way you can get meaning is by believing in god. I gotta say, I don't get it.

Because you apparently believe God and science to be mutually exclusive.  If one exists, then the other cannot.  I don't believe that.  Just because God created the universe, say, and allowed for our eventual creation, does not mean that we could not have been imbued with the ability to decipher His rule book.  After all, if we were created "in His own image", then we should have the capacity to eventually understand His doings.

Again, I don't preach dogma, because much of it makes no sense to me (because I do critically analyze religion, as I do pretty much everything else, to my wife's constant chagrin).  I don't, however, exclude from consideration the possibility that some power greater than me is sailing the cosmic ship.  Do I think God's looking over me?  Only to the extent that He gave me a functional brain - and fists, if needed -  to care for myself.  Do I put my faith in God to make my decisions for me?  Again, that's why my species was given a brain that works the way it does.

[JVides]

Whoa there...You're taking my statement out of context. I was replying to Brian asking about the believe in aliens and what difference there is between that and religion. That's why I said that. Anything can be used for evil.

Fair 'nuff.

[JVides]

I'd be interested to hear how you understand it and what you find unsatisfactory.  How I understand it seem to be very sensible.

I'll get back to you on that one.  I suddenly realized I've lost an hour and it's tax season.

[Brian Fein]

Whoa there...You're taking my statement out of context. I was replying to Brian asking about the believe in aliens and what difference there is between that and religion. That's why I said that. Anything can be used for evil.

That was exactly my point in that example.  What is the difference between me believing in aliens or me believing in God?  Neither one has ever been experienced by any human on earth to a scientifically acceptable level, and in both cases, any person who claims to have experience with either one is dismissed as "crazy".

So, in fact, I ask YOU - what is the difference?  Why does Dave explain away the possibility that aliens COULD exist but can not comprehend that "God" might exist?  What does killing or persecuting have to do with Joe-Schmoe-Churchgoer, who you deemed "mentally ill?"

[Dave Gray]

So, in fact, I ask YOU - what is the difference?  Why does Dave explain away the possibility that aliens COULD exist but can not comprehend that "God" might exist?

I don't think that someone who says "God might exist" is mentally ill.  I think that someone who says "God DOES exist" has a delusion.

I've already given the differences between aliens and God.  One is faith based, and the other, I feel, is based on observable phenomenon, including the size of our universe, understanding mathematical probability, and studying the origins of our own existence.

[Buddhagirl]

The difference, in my opinion, is that Joe Schmoe Churchgoer wants to take away others rights because of it. He wants to not let certains groups of people do certain things and then hide behind a book. He wants to tell me what I can and cannot do with my body and tell me what is right and wrong based on his religion. Where as someone believing in aliens doesn't eally harm anyone.

And...as stated. I never said that I think being a christian makes someone mentally ill. I just asked what is the difference? Who makes that call? When I was "guided by voices", I woke up strapped to a gurney. What if those were the voices of angels telling me to break out of the hospital? Why is the person doing something (anything...good or evil) in the name of god, or because god spoke to them different?

[Brian Fein]

I think you have a different definition of "Joe Schmoe Churchgoer" than I do.  I know a lot of people who are devout Christians and go to church weekly, even carry a bible in their car for spare-time reading.  None of them have EVER tried to take away my rights or tell me what to do.  I wonder if you've had a bad experience...?

And Dave, I think you're missing my point about the idea of God.  What if you envision "God" as a spiritual center point, and not as a magical invisible man in the sky?

[Fau Teixeira]

None of them have EVER tried to take away my rights or tell me what to do.

you are neither a woman nor gay

or they would

[Dave Gray]

And Dave, I think you're missing my point about the idea of God.  What if you envision "God" as a spiritual center point, and not as a magical invisible man in the sky?

Fair enough.  If we're talking about God in the Einsteinian sense -- meaning the forces of nature -- but giving it the name God...whatever.  That's more of a philosophy thing.

I'm talking more about a Judeo-Christian God that loves you and listens to prayers kind of thing.