The legality of medicine vs. religion for minors.

[Dphins4me]

 

The oversight is the whole "reporting to the FDA" part....

  So a company gets to create the problem, invent the drug, do the testing & then shove a ton of papers onto the table.  Then the FDA does what?  Review the companies findings?  Are we on the honor system of something?

Year or two later people start dropping dead from the drug.

Great oversight.

I'd say that we do have a successful agency, particularly if you compare the results to what we had before the FDA existed.

I would think a bullet in the leg is particularly better if you compare it with a bullet to the head.

I'll grant you its better than nothing.  However, its falling down on the job with not policing the industry.

You don't think Cheerios is food?

Why would I?  Its processed grain

Will people die from eating it?  No.  Will it help them remain healthy?  No.

Cheerios has a glycemic index (GI) rating of 74 and a glycemic load (GL) of 12 versus old fashioned rolled oats, which have a GI of 46 and GL of 9. Lower GI and GL ratings indicate that a food has less impact on blood sugar levels.

In general, spikes in blood sugar levels are not considered a good thing (although they can be useful immediately following weight training.)

Rapid increases in blood sugar may lead to increased fat storage under particular circumstances — typically in a calorie surplus – but more importantly, you may experience a quick burst of energy, followed by a crash a few hours later. Refined sugars are the leading cause of this, but highly-processed grains can have similar effects — especially if they aren’t balanced out against a protein and fat. This is especially the case with non-whole grain cereals like Special K or Rice Chex.

Are Cheerios A Healthy Cereal?

[Dave Gray]

Why would I?  Its processed grain

Yeah, thus food.

Processed grain = food.  Cheerios are food.  This thread is getting crazier by the minute.

[bsmooth]

Has this thread set the all time record for quoting? I think this horse is dead, flayed, and formulated into glue.

[Spider-Dan]

So a company gets to create the problem, invent the drug, do the testing & then shove a ton of papers onto the table.  Then the FDA does what?  Review the companies findings?

What, exactly, would you call "oversight"?

I mean, short of nationalizing every pharmco, I'm not sure what you expect the FDA to be able to do.  Pharmcos are required to keep very detailed records of their clinical trials and manufacturing processes.  If a problem occurs later on, the FDA audits the pharmco, verifying that all the information that has been submitted is, in fact, accurate.  If it's not, the pharmco faces stiff penalties, including being shut down.

I would think a bullet in the leg is particularly better if you compare it with a bullet to the head.

I'll grant you its better than nothing.  However, its falling down on the job with not policing the industry.

If you think that the FDA is a failure as an agency, I would like to hear you name any agency (or business, or hell, any organization period) that is a "success".  I am interested in hearing of an organization that performs its role without a single error ever slipping through the cracks.

Why would I [consider Cheerios as food]?  Its processed grain

Dave, you and I are just more of the brainwashed masses that think that when we go to a restaurant, we are eating "food".

It's a sad state of affairs when the vast majority of the population would qualify items like "pasta" and "ice cream" as food.  Because there is no such thing as a sliding scale between "healthier food" and "less healthy food"... no, there is simply "food" and "toxic poison".  Dphins4me is one of the enlightened few on this subject.

[Dphins4me]

Processed grain = food.  Cheerios are food.  This thread is getting crazier by the minute.

  Oh its food ( cough cough ) just as poisoned water is still water.  Drink it at your own risk, but don't be shocked when your body starts to deteriorate.   

What, exactly, would you call "oversight"?

I mean, short of nationalizing every pharmco, I'm not sure what you expect the FDA to be able to do.  Pharmcos are required to keep very detailed records of their clinical trials and manufacturing processes.  If a problem occurs later on, the FDA audits the pharmco, verifying that all the information that has been submitted is, in fact, accurate.  If it's not, the pharmco faces stiff penalties, including being shut down.

Shut down?   Good one.  Stiff penalties?  Another good one.  FDA fines company millions after revenue of billions. 
Its like trading a one dollar bill for tens & saying I've been ripped off.

Businesses are required to keep very detailed records of their balance sheet.  Have they ever been skewed to make them look better than they actually were?

If you think that the FDA is a failure as an agency, I would like to hear you name any agency (or business, or hell, any organization period) that is a "success".  I am interested in hearing of an organization that performs its role without a single error ever slipping through the cracks..

  If the FDA only had one failure then we would not be discussing them.

Dave, you and I are just more of the brainwashed masses that think that when we go to a restaurant, we are eating "food".

It's a sad state of affairs when the vast majority of the population would qualify items like "pasta" and "ice cream" as food.  Because there is no such thing as a sliding scale between "healthier food" and "less healthy food"... no, there is simply "food" and "toxic poison".  Dphins4me is one of the enlightened few on this subject.

  You are brainwashed or void of knowledge on the subject.  There is a reason America is obese & considered an over feed, but under nourished nation.   You do not become obese by eating healthy foods.  You becomes obese by eathing less healthy foods.

 I did something about my own health & it wasn't asking someone else to pay for my personal decision of constantly consuming "less healthy food"  People need to own up for their own decisions & stop asking the Gov to force someone else to pay for their piss poor decision.

Are you one of these people who believe eating french fries means a daily serving of vegetables has been met?

[Spider-Dan]

Shut down?   Good one.

You don't know WTF you are talking about.

It took me all of 10 seconds to google "FDA shutdown" and come up with the following:

http://pharmtech.findpharma.com/pharmtech/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=173557

The US Food and Drug Administration (Rockville, MD) last Tuesday slapped Pharmakon Laboratories (Tampa, FL) with a permanent injunction forcing the company to shut down operations. The company manufactures and distributes cough and cold liquids, tablets, and caplets.

Following inspections by FDA and a trial in US District Court, Judge Richard A. Lazzara found that drug products sold by Pharmakon did not meet current good manufacturing practice standards and other legal requirements. This isn't the first time Pharmakon's manufacturing practices have been questioned. In September 2001, the company received a warning letter citing failure to label proper dosage; failure to establish qualification for manufacturing equipment ancillary systems; failure to validate or establish written procedures for the validation of equipment operations, water quality, or computer software used to calculate batch formulations, and failure to periodically monitor the quality of water used for manufacturing and cleaning.

Judge Lazzara stated in a release that he was, "simply unwilling as a court of equity to place the health, safety, and welfare of the general public at risk in order to accommodate the economic well-being of defendants." The defendants were ordered to halt manufacturing and distributing drugs until they meet FDA’s CGMP standards and receive marketing approvals.

"This action by Judge Lazzara sends a strong signal that FDA will take action against drugs that fail to meet quality standards," stated FDA Commissioner Lester M. Crawford. "As the nation's top enforcer of manufacturing standards, the FDA will continue to ensure that drugs being sold in this country meet those crucial requirements."

I don't know why you have this insane hard-on for the FDA (particularly when you shout vigorously for less gov't in virtually every other area), but please wake up.

If the FDA only had one failure then we would not be discussing them.

I notice that you failed to answer the question.

Please name any "successful" organization that exists in this country.  If you cannot, then your characterization of the FDA as "failed" is meaningless, since everyone else has also failed.

You are brainwashed or void of knowledge on the subject.  There is a reason America is obese & considered an over feed, but under nourished nation.   You do not become obese by eating healthy foods.  You becomes obese by eathing less healthy foods.

Please give me an example of a "less healthy food".  Since Cheerios (and even bread!) are not healthy enough to even qualify as food in your book, I am interested in hearing what could possibly qualify as a "less healthy food".

People need to own up for their own decisions & stop asking the Gov to force someone else to pay for their piss poor decision.

!!!

This from the person who screams bloody murder if the FDA does not stop every single death from every drug ever made!  Apparently owning up for your own decisions doesn't apply if you are taking pharmaceuticals, or something?

Make up your mind.  If you are going to play the ultra-libertarian people-who-are-stupid-enough-to-eat-hamburgers-don't-deserve-healthcare card, then you need to stop playing the gov't-should-wield-an-iron-fist-over-the-pharmcos card.

In all honesty, you sound like a libertarian that lost a family member to a undisclosed drug side effect, causing cognitive dissonance between your desire for free, unregulated markets and your anger over losing a loved one to a defective product.

[Brians Stalker]

Back to the actual story:

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=718924&catid=2

The mother and the boy went to the Doctor yesterday for an X-ray, were told that the cancer spread significantly, and then failed to show up for a court hearing today where the results were supposed to be revealed.  The Father says he hasn't seen or heard from them.

[Sunstroke]

It sounds like Mom now realizes how badly she's screwed up and is fleeing the law at this point.

...maybe her Church will loan her the use of a good attorney.

[Brians Stalker]

I feel bad for the little boy because I think he is in a crappy spot.  I read the entire 77 page transcript from when he testified, and it is clear that his Mother has fed him every line.  It's no wonder he doesn't want the chemo, he doesn't even believe that he is sick because of her.

[YoFuggedaboutit]

Back to the actual story:

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=718924&catid=2

The mother and the boy went to the Doctor yesterday for an X-ray, were told that the cancer spread significantly, and then failed to show up for a court hearing today where the results were supposed to be revealed.  The Father says he hasn't seen or heard from them.

An arrest warrant has been issued for the mother, as her and the boy are on the run. 

http://news.aol.com/article/boy-resists-chemo/488967?icid=main|main|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fnews.aol.com%2Farticle%2Fboy-resists-chemo%2F488967

[jtex316]

He's 13!!! He doesn't know shit from shit. He's even MORE unfit to make any decisions...thank you Minnesota judge for not allowing some idiot 7th grader who listens to "Souja Boy" and rides his bicycle to middle school make a decision about chemotherapy.

Dphins4me - Please don't break down every 3 words of my reply and whether you agree, disagree, or whether you just feel like talking about it. Please spare me this:

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He's 13!!!

Actually, he's 14. Get your facts straight before posting here.

He doesn't know shit from shit.

YOU don't know "shit from shit". Actually, isn't that a paradox? How can shit know shit from shit, if shit is the one being known from shit?

He's even MORE unfit to make any decisions..

Actually, he's currently taking Earth Space Science with Ms. Johnson in the "Wildcat" Classroom. They are currently discussing tectonic plate structures, which makes him eligible to make advanced medical decisions decades beyond his comprehension.

thank you

Why are you thanking the judge?

Minnesota judge for not allowing some idiot 7th grader

This is your un-biased opinion.

who listens to "Souja Boy" and rides his bicycle to middle school make a decision about chemotherapy.

First of all it's "Soulja Boy" and second his mom drives him to school in the family SUV. Why would I consider Fruit Loops as a food? It only has all the nutritious elements and is part of a balanced breakfast. It's obvious that we're never going to agree on everything so let's just let it die right here.

It's obvious that we're never going to agree on everything so let's just let it die right here.

This is where you're FLAT OUT wrong!!! I am agreeing on you about....oh, shit, I'm quoting myself now.

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(Seriously, man, if this were the Super Bowl of arguing, you're the Buffalo Bills down 50 points against the Cowboys in the Rose Bowl. Also, how do you even have time to do all of these quotes like that? That shit up above took me 20 minutes and I'm exhausted...how do you have so much time to make such outlandish points and use the quote function?)

[Dave Gray]

If this woman manages to hide her son and he dies (which there's a 95% chance that he will), I think she has to be tried for manslaughter. 

[jtex316]

If this woman manages to hide her son and he dies (which there's a 95% chance that he will), I think she has to be tried for manslaughter. 

In all seriousness, isn't this considered "Depraved Indifference"?

[YoFuggedaboutit]

In all seriousness, isn't this considered "Depraved Indifference"?

More like taking the law into your own hands.  If she's smart, she'll leave the country with him. 

[Brians Stalker]

More like taking the law into your own hands.  If she's smart, she'll leave the country with him. 

No, if she is smart, she will take him back and get him the medical treatment that he needs.