A drafting exercise.

[fyo]

Not including draft position makes no sense. The expectations for a first-round pick are completely unrelated to those of a late-rounder.

Sure, after 3-6 years, who cares... but since this is a DRAFTING exercise (your own words), clearly draft position should play a vital role.

I like the 5-point system of grading. I actually think you avoid a lot of discussions by having a bit more cushion. Think Ginn as per your example. With the 5-point system, the argument is over a 2 or a 3 (2/5ths of the grade scale), while with a 3-point system it would be a 1 or a 2 (2/3rds of the grade scale).

[Dave Gray]

I would also call Fletcher a bust.  He was never a contributor to this team, and only managed to stay on the roster because we didn't have other options, and he was chosen with a high pick.

[JVides]

Great analogies on the ratings Doc.  I can think of several Dolphins players that come to mind in each category.  I'll think of one current player and one past player for each category:

Elite-  Dan Marino, Jason Taylor

Hit- Richmond Webb, Yeremiah Bell

Serviceable- Morlon Greenwood, Akin Ayodele

Dissapointment- Jamar Fletcher, Gibril Wilson

Bust- Yatil Green, Jason Allen
Hit-

WHAAAAA?  Richmond Webb was elite, my friend!  Something like 9 straight Pro Bowls, right?  He shredded his triceps to crap and was never the same, but that man could play!

[YoFuggedaboutit]

Wilson? The Fins had absolutely nothing to do with drafting him.

Also, I'm curious what makes Fletcher "only" a disappointment, but Allen a bust.

OK.  Didn't realize that this only applies to draft picks.  Free agent signings could easily fit into those categories as well. 

[Dave Gray]

It applies to all players, since we'll have to end up grading players that the Dolphins don't pick, as well.

[Phishfan]

It applies to all players, since we'll have to end up grading players that the Dolphins don't pick, as well.

You seem to be changing your exercise. Your original goal was to see if you draft better than the Dolphins execs. Why would you need to rate any other players if that is your stated goal?

[YoFuggedaboutit]

You seem to be changing your exercise. Your original goal was to see if you draft better than the Dolphins execs. Why would you need to rate any other players if that is your stated goal?

Maybe he wants to see if he can sign free agents better as well..... and that's a good thing to look at.

[Doc-phin]

It applies to all players, since we'll have to end up grading players that the Dolphins don't pick, as well.

If you are going to grade players we didn't pick, than I have to make another suggestion.  You need to assign some sort of handicap to all the teams in the league and it probably needs to be dependant on the position they play.

For instance, lets say we picked a wide receiver at the same time the colts picked up the receiver you actually wanted.  The other receiver has the distinct advantage of playing with Payton Manning and a pass oriented team.  That same receiver may not have been as successful with us.

Or perhaps we pick a Linebacker, when the colts pick an o-lineman that you wanted.  I would say that is pretty much an even chance for success.  It will be an opinion, but you seem bright enough to figure it out.

I would suggest applying a draft grade and placing a +, -, or 0 next to it.  This indicator would express that the player is being assigned more credit, less credit, or even credit because of the way his position matches with the strengths of the team he is on.

Wish I had more time to think that out for you, but you can't be fair without considering this issue.

[Dave Gray]

You seem to be changing your exercise. Your original goal was to see if you draft better than the Dolphins execs. Why would you need to rate any other players if that is your stated goal?

We will need to rate:
1) The players that the Dolphins actually draft, based on their play with our team.
AND
2) The players that we draft instead, based on their play with another team.

[Brian Fein]

I think there's some inaccuracy when evaluating players drafted by another team.  I think the player's surroundings greatly affects their development into a pro-level performer or not. 

For example, had Ted Ginn been drafted by New England, perhaps he would be a pro-bowler by now.  The fact that he's had noodle-armed QB's for the first 2 1/2 seasons of his career may have stunted his growth as a player, where if he was running fly routes with Brady placing the ball gently in his arms since day 1, maybe he'd have the confidence now to make him a better player.

Just a thought.  Its hard to say that Carson Palmer would have been as successful in aqua and orange as he is in black and orange.

[Dave Gray]

For example, had Ted Ginn been drafted by New England, perhaps he would be a pro-bowler by now.  The fact that he's had noodle-armed QB's for the first 2 1/2 seasons of his career may have stunted his growth as a player, where if he was running fly routes with Brady placing the ball gently in his arms since day 1, maybe he'd have the confidence now to make him a better player.

I don't buy into this much.  Ginn's problem is that he can't catch a football.  He drops balls that hit him in the hands.  The best QB in the world won't change that.  There are some cases where players (and only with QBs, really) suffer developmental growth and are unable to recover.  Truly talented players eventually find success, even if it's on another team.

[Brian Fein]

^^ agree to disagree - I think Ginn's problem is confidence with a smattering of concentration problems.  Its all in his head.

But I guess another example could be Ryan Leaf.  He was a talented kid, on par with Peyton Manning.  He was drafted into a destructive atmosphere (suspect that's why Archie threw a fit about Eli Manning being drafted by San Diego) and eventually fell apart mentally.  Put Ryan Leaf on the Colts - is he still a laughing stock of the league?

[Doc-phin]

I don't buy into this much.  Ginn's problem is that he can't catch a football.  He drops balls that hit him in the hands.  The best QB in the world won't change that.  There are some cases where players (and only with QBs, really) suffer developmental growth and are unable to recover.  Truly talented players eventually find success, even if it's on another team.

I am starting to get the feeling my post was made invisible. 

Beside that, let me counter by saying that if Ginn were paired with a deep ball quarterback in a pass heavy offense and a coaching staff with no regime change it could easily be said that Ginn would have had more opportunities to show his unique abilities.  Instead, we have him in running outs and curls with the occasional deep ball by a QB that barely threw to him in training camp. 

I would say that you can't consider Ginn a bust because of the circumstances.  He may very well be a bust, but we can't be sure.  As of right now, given the circumstances, he is more likely to be considered a disappointment or even serviceable (by the cool-aid drinkers out there).

[BigDaddyFin]

Somebody should bookmark/save this post for April.  I vote for a 3 point system because there's fewer choices and therefore fewer lines to blur.  A five point system kind of leaves too many choices to pick from. 

However might I suggest we use a 0 to 2 scale, so that a "bust" tally doesn't count a positive rating?