NFL Over Time

[Brian Fein]

Why are we not even considering that teams get to play defense?  Don't you think a team like the Jets or Ravens would thrive to have their defense on the field.

The current overtime method works.  Offense isn't always an advantage.

Maybe we should make the goal posts narrower for overtime.

[Tenshot13]

I think the OT method is fine as is.

[Dave Gray]

Nobody is saying that it's not fair in the current system.  You could just flip a coin for the winner and that would be "fair".

The current system ignores things like momentum, which is huge in football.  Plus, it's anti-climactic, in my opinion.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

^^Why would you not pick the 1 yard line to place the ball?

Cause if you go 3 and out the other team takes over in FG range.  Cause you are throwing out of your own end zone. Cause you need to go about 65 yards to get into FG range.  Cause if the QB gets sacked or fumbles the ball, the game is over and you lose.  How often do teams score if they start on the 1? 

This is a horrible plan. The first team is forced to play four downs and score a TD while the second team gets benefit of the FG option? Absolutely horrible.

Think it is real bad elect to kickoff. 

And you don't have to play 4 downs, you could punt.  Stop the other team and get the ball back you can win on a FG, you just can't win on a FG on your first possesion. 

[Spider-Dan]

  every team would choose to get the ball second and would give a much bigger advantage to the coinflip winner.  the team that gets the ball second would always have 4 downs to get a first down if the other team scored first.

If the other team scores first then you're already in the hole (and under the current system, the game would already be over).

Remember that after both teams have had a possession, it becomes sudden death.  So unless you are certain that you will score on your possession, you'd potentially be at a disadvantage to go second.

[Thundergod]

Yeah, I think they should just play an overtime period.  It doesn't have to be 15 minutes, maybe just 10, but play the whole overtime and whoever is ahead at the end wins.  I hate sudden death ot.

This, I like.

[Tepop84]

If the other team scores first then you're already in the hole (and under the current system, the game would already be over).

Remember that after both teams have had a possession, it becomes sudden death.  So unless you are certain that you will score on your possession, you'd potentially be at a disadvantage to go second.

Well you are wrong. Sudden death would begin if the first team fails to score, the second team would only need a field goal to win.  If the first team scores a touchdown, the second team now is in 4 down territory the entire time.

[Brian Fein]

Cause if you go 3 and out the other team takes over in FG range.  Cause you are throwing out of your own end zone. Cause you need to go about 65 yards to get into FG range.  Cause if the QB gets sacked or fumbles the ball, the game is over and you lose.  How often do teams score if they start on the 1? 

Guess I misunderstood you.  I thought you said toss winner places the ball and direction and the other team chooses possession.  I think any team would choose to get the ball regardless of field position.  therefore, if i am placing the ball on the 1 yard line, they will take possession, if for no other reason than to prevent me from getting the ball 1 yard from a TD.

[fyo]

Guess I misunderstood you.  I thought you said toss winner places the ball and direction and the other team chooses possession.  I think any team would choose to get the ball regardless of field position.  therefore, if i am placing the ball on the 1 yard line, they will take possession, if for no other reason than to prevent me from getting the ball 1 yard from a TD.

Brian, you're still misunderstanding it...

It's the classic "how to cut cake" solution. One guy slices, the other picks.

In this case, one team picks a yard line, the other team picks who starts with the ball. So if Team A picks the 1-yard line, Team B can choose to start with the ball on their own 1 or let Team A start with the ball on THEIR own 1.

So no one ever has 1 yard to go...

The basic principle is that you get the most "equal" splitting of the cake, provided there's a turning point. If you still say "definitely start with the ball even on my own 1", then there's no "optimally fair" solution.

Look at it the other way around. Team A gets to pick how many yards the offense will have to go to score, while Team B gets to pick which team starts on offense.

In the case where there's an "optimally fair" solution, there's going to be some yard line where a coach feels "it really doesn't matter if we start with it or they do". My guess would be around the 10.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

what fyo said.

I figure most of the times it will be between the 7 and 15 yard line, 10 sounds about right.  Of course if it is tied 67 to 67 with zero punts and zero turnovers on both sides then I might take it on the one.  OTOH if it is 7-7, both defensive TDs and a grand total of 3 first downs between the 2 teams it might be closer to the 30 yard line. 

But yeah, it is the one person slices the other picks solution. 

[Brian Fein]

he said one team picks yard line AND DIRECTION.  So I wanna put the ball on the 1 yard line and I wanna defend the end zone 99 yards away.  Do you want the ball or not?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

he said one team picks yard line AND DIRECTION.  So I wanna put the ball on the 1 yard line and I wanna defend the end zone 99 yards away.  Do you want the ball or not?

Direction --- as in which direction the team that has the ball on say the 5 yard line has to go 95 yards (aginst the wind or with the wind)  not which goal post the team will defend.   

[Brian Fein]

clearly this needs to be thought through.  Typically, in a coin toss, they officials determine direction by which goal they would like to defend, not which way the wind is blowing.  What if its in a dome?

So by fyo's reasoning, you'd place the ball at the 50 every time, and give them 20 yards to go and kick a FG?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

clearly this needs to be thought through.  Typically, in a coin toss, they officials determine direction by which goal they would like to defend, not which way the wind is blowing.  What if its in a dome?

So by fyo's reasoning, you'd place the ball at the 50 every time, and give them 20 yards to go and kick a FG?

No!

1. Toss the coin
2. Ref hand football to the capt of the coin winning team. 
3. Capt places the football on the field (most likily between the 5 and 15 yard line) and points in the direction that the ball will be traveling on its first possesion.
4.  Other teams chooses if they want to play defense or offense. 

One team cuts the cake.  The other team chooses which half is better. 

[fyo]

So by fyo's reasoning, you'd place the ball at the 50 every time, and give them 20 yards to go and kick a FG?

I think you're taking my "cake-cutting" analogy a bit too far.

I know Hoodie spelled it out, but then I thought I had as well, so I'll give it one more go...

If you and I play and I win the toss, let's say I get to choose the yard line distance-to-go. Let's say I say 99 yards. You then get to pick whether you want to play offense or defense first and the ball will then be placed on the field in such a manner that the offense (whomever that might be) has 99 yards to go.

Clearly, the 1 yard line favors the defense tremendously and most people would choose to start on D, so I'd be foolish to say "99 yards to go". More likely, I'd say something like "90" yards to go. That way, I'd feel that no matter which option you chose (O or D), I'd be OK with it. Yeah, I'd like to play O from the middle, but if I choose "50 yards to go", you're not going to let me play O first and I'd probably lose, so... "90 yards to go" it is.

EDIT: If you want to add "direction of play" to the (cake) mix, it's simple: I get to choose (in the above scenario). So I'd say "90 yards to go against the wind". If it's a really strong wind and I didn't have a VERY good running game, I'd have to push it until I felt that either option (O or D) was OK with me (equal). So maybe "80 yards to go against the strong wind".