Bush to lose Heisman

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

So, if Reggie Bush had gone in drag his entire time at USC, competed in women's sports, won every possible title, including "top female athlete of the year"...and then he got caught five years after he left USC when someone finally noticed his adam's apple, does that mean he actually WAS a female during his college years?

He cheated, he got caught... Take the awards away from him that he won while cheating.

I see a difference between what Bush someone taking steroids.  What Bush did, did not help him win any games.  It did not give him an unfair advantage.

In fact, I see what Bush did to be analogues to what Pete Rose did.  Both broke the rules, but neither gained an advantage for themselves or their team.

But both brought disgrace and needless distraction to the game they played.

I therefore OPPOSE: USC forfeiting any championships, Bush returning the Heisman, the Red forfeiting  any world series, or Rose returning his Gold Glove Award, Silver Slugger Award, NL MVP, World Series MVP, NL Rookie of the Year, Hutch Award, Lou Gehrig Memorial Award or Roberto Clemente Award.  

I do, however, support the idea that the disgrace they brought upon themselves and others ought be factored in when considering them for the baseball hall of fame, college football hall of fame or NFL hall of fame.  

[Sunstroke]

I therefore OPPOSE: USC forfeiting any championships, Bush returning the Heisman, the Red forfeiting  any world series, or Rose returning his Gold Glove Award, Silver Slugger Award, NL MVP, World Series MVP, NL Rookie of the Year, Hutch Award, Lou Gehrig Memorial Award or Roberto Clemente Award.  

I do, however, support the idea that the disgrace they brought upon themselves and others ought be factored in when considering them for the baseball hall of fame, college football hall of fame or NFL hall of fame.  

So, it would be OK for one organization's memorial to sports fame (the hall of fame) to count his cheating against him...but it's not OK for another organization's memorial to sports fame (the heisman trophy) to count his cheating against him.

Hmmmm...

[Phishfan]

The question is, how is accepting money cheating?  It doesn't affect his performance on the field.  I agree with Brian.  If he was taking Performance Enhancing Drugs, that would be one thing.  But accepting money is something he did off the field that didn't affect his performance on it. 

Every college pays off its athletes.  USC was just stupid enough to get caught. Now they have to pay the penalty.

Your stance is very confusing. At first you disagree, then you agree. Yes they all have to pay the penalty. In my eyes that penalty is losing the Heisman he was awarded.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

So, it would be OK for one organization's memorial to sports fame (the hall of fame) to count his cheating against him...but it's not OK for another organization's memorial to sports fame (the heisman trophy) to count his cheating against him.
Hmmmm...

Timeline.....lets not rewrite history.  He won the Heisman, Pete Rose won the golden glove award.  Happened. Its over.  Done. Period. Move on.  But for future awards consider the totality of what they did up until the voting process.  I think Ray Lewis's getting away with murder ought keep him out of the HOF.  I don't feel OJ getting away with two should get him removed.  I did not agree with revoting on the DROY.

[Dave Gray]

CNN is reporting that they will indeed ask for the Heisman back.

[Sunstroke]

Timeline.....lets not rewrite history.  He won the Heisman, Pete Rose won the golden glove award.  Happened. Its over.  Done. Period. Move on.  But for future awards consider the totality of what they did up until the voting process.  I think Ray Lewis's getting away with murder ought keep him out of the HOF.  I don't feel OJ getting away with two should get him removed.  I did not agree with revoting on the DROY.

No worries...we just have different opinions on this issue. You believe in a "what's done is done" policy, regardless of whether what was done is right or not.

[Brian Fein]

No worries...we just have different opinions on this issue. You believe in a "what's done is done" policy, regardless of whether what was done is right or not.

YES!

The difference is effect.  Accepting money doesn't make you play better.  Buying his mom a house doesn't put points on the board.  Yes, its against the rules, but I wouldn't call it "cheating."  Its not like USC won more games because Reggie's sister was rolling in a Caddy as opposed to a Tercel.

Surely we can all agree on that?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

The difference is effect.

That is one difference.  What Bush and Rose did while wrong did not aid them in the game.

However, I have yet to hear the chants for Sammy Sosa to give back his Silver Slugger Awards even though his corked bats most definitely aided him in winning those awards. 

(not that I agree with giving back award but this would be a much better case for that)

[Phishfan]

CNN is reporting that they will indeed ask for the Heisman back.

Lots of people are reporting it, but it is apparently a false report (at this stage). Fowler said he spoke directly to one of the people on the committee and the denied that there is anything close to a decision at this point.

[bsmooth]

The only stupid policy is penalizing the players that had nothing to do with the scandal. The NCAA needs to lay down massive fines and penalize tv coverage of non bowl games for the team involved. It would hurt the school, but not the students who did nothing wrong, especially when the investigation takes years to finish.
If they catch a school with questionable players on the field, such as what is going on with the agent sponsored trips, you can actually hammer both the schools and players involved.

Also it is cheating to take money. The bigger, richer schools have had boosters buying top tier talent to stock their shelves for decades, and it has been an unfair advantage over smaller schools that have less booster activity or fight to keep their programs clean.

[fyo]

USC knowingly put a player on the field that they knew was accepting money (if you don't think they knew just go back and read up on the dramatic lifestyle changes both Reggie and his family went through). I feel you can't ignore or reward cheating. That does nothing to help correct future actions.

What about all the other NCAA rules and regulations that are broken by pretty much ALL teams? My problem with all this is the hypocrisy.

An obvious example is the 8-hours-a-week of sports that college athletes are limited to in the "off season". That includes any and all conditioning, time spent watching game tape, technical skills, and so on.

[Landshark]

Because it's against the rules?

Sometimes you have to break the rules in order to change them.  But still, how is it cheating?  He wasn't taking steroids, wasn't stealing game film from other schools, how could him taking money give him an unfair advantage over the guys he went against on the field?   It couldn't and didn't.   He won his Heisman, let him keep it. 

[Phishfan]

Sometimes you have to break the rules in order to change them.  But still, how is it cheating?  He wasn't taking steroids, wasn't stealing game film from other schools, how could him taking money give him an unfair advantage over the guys he went against on the field?   It couldn't and didn't.   He won his Heisman, let him keep it. 

He gave his team an unfair advantage. Reggie Bush was Reggie Bush no matter what. Take the money away is he Reggie Bush at USC anymore? Does he go somewhere else? If so, does it affect his Heisman chances? The Butterfly Effect is in full play. You can't take the money out of the equation and say everything else remains the same.

[bsmooth]

He gave his team an unfair advantage. Reggie Bush was Reggie Bush no matter what. Take the money away is he Reggie Bush at USC anymore? Does he go somewhere else? If so, does it affect his Heisman chances? The Butterfly Effect is in full play. You can't take the money out of the equation and say everything else remains the same.

I agree fully. Does USC win the NC without him? Is he there without the cash? Perhaps he could have still won the Heisman without being at USC, but we will never know because he took the money to go there.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

The Butterfly Effect is in full play.

And if the Dolphin's don't tamper with the Colts head coach in 1969, then do they win the superbowl in '72?  At some point the butterfly effect is just bs. 

What Bush did was a violation of the rules.  No question.  But it doesn't change the fact he did in fact run the yards that won him the award. 

I say fine USC heavily.  And maybe even suspended Bush from some games from the NFL.  But the award was won.  And certainly don't punish the current kids at USC for something they had no part of.