Parcells leaves Dolphins

[Spider-Dan]

Merling's agent had a lot to do with us keeping him after he beat up his pregnant girlfriend.

Again, you're claiming that Parcells would have cut this guy (ostensibly because he sucks, as you repeatedly state), but since they have the same agent, Parcells decided to keep him.

This is not a serious theory.

Brett Farve threw the ball right at Jason Allen a few times, whoooptie damn doo, Allen caught it. Who doesn't pick off Farve these days

He also picked off Aaron Rodgers.  I guess Rodgers is a scrub now?

Marc Sanchez and Tom Brady destroyed Jason Allen and that is the Jason Allen that has been in this league for 4 years now.

1) Being "destroyed" by Tom Brady does not mean that you suck.
2) Tom Brady threw for 153 yards and one touchdown in that game.  This is "destroyed?"

And the fact Sean Smith can't beat him out says how much Sean Smith stinks!!

You take it as established indisputable fact that J.Allen sucks, and then conclude that anyone who can't beat him also sucks.  J.Allen is leading our team in INTs; Vontae is the only player on our team to intercept a pass, and he has ONE.

And since getting burned on one big TD play means that you "got destroyed" (e.g. J.Allen vs. NYJ), surely Vontae sucks just as badly?  He got burned even worse by Jennings at GB (Allen at least had the excuse that he slipped and fell down).  Seems to me that one can make the argument that (using your logic) J.Allen is the best CB on the team, since Vontae had a worse play and has 1/3rd as many INTs.

[MikeO]

Jason Allen has 4 years of SUCKING. Vonte doesn't.

If you can't see the difference you are just arguing for the sake of arguing right now

[JVides]

^^^MikeO, I can't see how you can take a 2nd year corner and call him a bust.  Likewise, I don't understand how you can completely pass on the notion that Jason Allen is finally at the same position for more than a year, with the same coaching and scheme, and how all of that may be playing a part in the fact that he's playing quite well.

[phinsinmiami]

its good news if he really leave dolphins

[Spider-Dan]

Jason Allen has 4 years of SUCKING. Vonte doesn't.

Cameron Wake is older than Jason Allen (he came out of college the year before Allen did) and already flunked out of the NFL once.  I guess that means Wake is garbage forever!

Because clearly, your level of performance right now is like, totally irrelevant to a discussion about how good you are.

To follow your same line of reasoning:

Joey Porter sucked last year.
Joey Porter started over Cameron Wake.
Therefore, Cameron Wake sucks.
Q.E.D.

[MikeO]

^^^MikeO, I can't see how you can take a 2nd year corner and call him a bust.  Likewise, I don't understand how you can completely pass on the notion that Jason Allen is finally at the same position for more than a year, with the same coaching and scheme, and how all of that may be playing a part in the fact that he's playing quite well.

Sean Smith doesn't play and has been beaten out by a guy who is terrible in Jason Allen. He is burried on the depth chart behind Jason Allen and Benny Sapp. What more proof do you need? The guy can't play.

You people defending Jason Allen are killing me. Did you watch the Jets or Pats games? Against top players he gets abused all day long.  And vs a team who had scrub WR's in Minny and an old QB who has the most INT's in league history, he looked good. Hang your hat on that! That game was the exception NOT the norm!

[MikeO]

Cameron Wake is older than Jason Allen (he came out of college the year before Allen did) and already flunked out of the NFL once.  I guess that means Wake is garbage forever!

Because clearly, your level of performance right now is like, totally irrelevant to a discussion about how good you are.

To follow your same line of reasoning:

Joey Porter sucked last year.
Joey Porter started over Cameron Wake.
Therefore, Cameron Wake sucks.
Q.E.D.

Wake was a star in canada. that counts for something. Jason Allen can't play. If he coudl play, then why did we draft Vonte and Sean Smith when we already had Will Allen? The coaches showed a real VOTE OF CONFIDENCE (not) in Jason Allen with that draft using a 1st and 2nd round pick on CB's. I mean why use thsoe picks on CB's when we have the great Jason Allen!! please!

[JVides]

Wake was a star in canada. that counts for something. Jason Allen can't play. If he coudl play, then why did we draft Vonte and Sean Smith when we already had Will Allen? The coaches showed a real VOTE OF CONFIDENCE (not) in Jason Allen with that draft using a 1st and 2nd round pick on CB's. I mean why use thsoe picks on CB's when we have the great Jason Allen!! please!

Dude, because J Allen had, to that point, stunk.  He has since become a solid starter.  I'll have to find it, but I read recently that J Allen is rating in the upper half of all corners in the league this year.

[MikeO]

Jason Allen is not a solid starter. That is where we disagree.

He is playing because he is the only option we have at that spot,. Period!

[Spider-Dan]

Wake was a star in canada. that counts for something.

Allen was a star in college.  Does that count for more or less than the CFL?

Jason Allen can't play. If he coudl play, then why did we draft Vonte and Sean Smith when we already had Will Allen?

Because he hadn't been playing very well up to that point.

You seem to be extremely hung up on everything that happened prior to this year.  This year, Jason Allen has been one of the best CBs on our team.  He is one off of the league lead in INTs.  (I am puzzled as to why you keep bringing up Favre; was Vontae somehow playing against a different QB that day?  If not, why didn't he get 2 INTs?  Discounting the quality of the opposition QB doesn't work when comparing players on the same team.)

Do you have any argument against Jason Allen other than "he sucked before so that means he must suck now"?  I mean, Drew Brees sucked out loud for his first three years in the league, but that obviously doesn't mean a damn thing today.

Did you watch the Jets or Pats games? Against top players he gets abused all day long.

Who abused him in the NE game?  Brady threw for 153 yards, total.

Yes, he got torched against the Jets, but Davis got torched worse against GB and you seem to shrug it off.

And vs a team who had scrub WR's in Minny and an old QB who has the most INT's in league history, he looked good. Hang your hat on that! That game was the exception NOT the norm!

So why does the game against GB not count, again?  You seem to just keep glossing over it, both for J.Allen and for Vontae.

[MikeO]

Vonte got beat on ONE PLAY in the GB game. 1 play!!

Jason Allen was torched for 4 quarters vs MARC friggin SANCHEZ!!!!. You really can't see a difference?

And playing poorly for 4 years....YES 4 years....is not playing well up to a point?? HA HA HA!!! That's funny!! And the reason Jason Allen has more INT's is because teams are avoiding throwing to Vonte's side and are picking on the lesser quality corner! Allen has more opportunties. Man that Minnesota game really has you with a man-crush on Jason Allen. You passing a hat taking donations to raise money to build his wing in Canton?! lol The guy sucks and is ONLY playing because Will Allen is hurt and Sean Smith can't play at all!!

[Spider-Dan]

Vonte got beat on ONE PLAY in the GB game. 1 play!!

Jason Allen was torched for 4 quarters vs MARC friggin SANCHEZ!!!!.

4 quarters, huh?  Was J.Allen secretly on Dustin Keller for the first half?

J.Allen gave up the Edwards TD (when he was in position, but slipped and fell) and made a dumb play on the 3rd down conversion to Edwards.  Vontae got straight burned by Jennings.

And the reason Jason Allen has more INT's is because teams are avoiding throwing to Vonte's side and are picking on the lesser quality corner!

So if they don't throw to Vontae, it proves that Vontae is better, and if they do throw to Vontae, that ALSO proves that Vontae is better.  Got it.

J.Allen has defended more passes, made more tackles, and intercepted more balls.  If he's being thrown at more, even if he is EXACTLY as capable as Vontae, you would expect him to get burned more often, by virtue of simple math.

Man that Minnesota game really has you with a man-crush on Jason Allen. You passing a hat taking donations to raise money to build his wing in Canton?!

I honestly don't care about J.Allen.  Your entire point is that J.Allen sucks (regardless of his performance) because he's already been on the team for 4 years, and you use that "fact" to conclude that necessarily anyone who is behind him on the depth chart (read: Smith) also sucks.

J.Allen is playing well this year; light-years better than he's ever played as a Dolphin.  There is only one other CB spot available.  That does not mean that whichever one of Davis and Smith that doesn't start is a bust.

P.S. I notice that you still have nothing to say about J.Allen's game in GB.

[David Fulcher]

Vonte got beat on ONE PLAY in the GB game. 1 play!!

Jason Allen was torched for 4 quarters vs MARC friggin SANCHEZ!!!!. You really can't see a difference?

And playing poorly for 4 years....YES 4 years....is not playing well up to a point?? HA HA HA!!! That's funny!! And the reason Jason Allen has more INT's is because teams are avoiding throwing to Vonte's side and are picking on the lesser quality corner! Allen has more opportunties. Man that Minnesota game really has you with a man-crush on Jason Allen. You passing a hat taking donations to raise money to build his wing in Canton?! lol The guy sucks and is ONLY playing because Will Allen is hurt and Sean Smith can't play at all!!

Dude, I'm sorry to tell ya, but I definitely agree with Spider on this one.....and I wouldn't even go so far as to say Jason Allen sucked for four seasons prior to this one.  Yeah, he wasn't so good his rookie season when he actually got the chance to play (coming off a bad injury his last season at Tennessee so whether we should've even drafted him or not goes to Saban's regime and you can't, or at least shouldn't, put that on J. Allen), but his 2nd season, the Cam Cameron misery year of 2007, I thought he was one of the few players on the entire team that did much that season once he started starting midway through the season.  Then, the next two seasons ('08 and '09), he didn't get to play that much, and perhaps it was because he was sucking, but it might have also had something to do with a) Will Allen isn't too shabby of a cover corner and in '08 Andre Goodman was playing well, and we all know that we drafted both Vontae and Sean Smith to hopefully start the next season in '09, and b) the guy was still being shuffled around between CB and S even through the past couple of seasons.  The only disappointment I'd say I had in relation to that was that he wasn't starting in place of Gibril by halfway through the season, once we saw how miserable that guy's play was and that he was a FA bust.  Otherwise, hey--maybe he hadn't justified his 1st round status to that point, but at least he was contributing, particularly on special teams, the past couple of seasons.

That's just leading up to this season, though (where, again, I'll give you that he was rarely good and usually just serviceable at times, but didn't think he was terrible).  However, in regards to this season, I don't see how you can just sit there and say that the guy is garbage (and let alone that that also means that Sean Smith is garbage as a result, which has been pointed out in multiple examples already in this thread).  Yeah, he had one bad game against the Jets (and, as Spider pointed out, even most of those slip-ups, he was in position to make the play.  He had a couple of plays there at the end where he just fouled up and, yes, made a bad play--wow, when does that ever happen to even good CB's in this league?    ).  Brady didn't do jack against us in the game against the Pats, they just dinked-and-dunked us on a couple of those drives in the 2nd half where they were playing ball control anyways--you can thank our ST for that one, of course, but unless all 153 passing yards were on Jason Allen (which of course they weren't), then sorry, no way you should say type with a straight face that Brady destroyed him.  So, that leaves the Buffalo, Minnesota, and GB games, where he has done fine in all of them besides I think dropping a pick that should've been there against the Bills.  Whether old man Favre slings INT's around or not, Allen made the plays that were there to be made.  I watched the entire GB game and thought he played well, you seem to just be ignoring that.  He has had a good season for us so far--not great, but definitely good, and doesn't deserve the way you're bashing him as if he's sucked.  I just hope he keeps the good play up and even steps it up a notch.

MikeO, I'm not some big Jason Allen fan, either.  Of course I want to see the guy do well because--well, I want to see all our players do well, period, but especially ones we invested first round picks in, but I have no particular love for him.  Still, if you keep up this irrational talk about his play so far this season, I'm gonna start thinking of you like a fella that used to hang around here that went by the name of Tepop, and the way he acted about Chad Henne....and, believe me, that's a miserable comparison to have.   

[MikeO]

Jason Allen isn't any good. He had one good game vs Minesota. Ok. IN 4 years that might be his ONLY good game as a member of this team.

I'm not rooting agaisnt the guy but he isn't any good. Let's be realistic enough to face facts and NOT ignore the obvious. The guy can't play.

[Spider-Dan]

MikeO, are you even going to acknowledge the game against GB?  You seem pretty intent on completely ignoring it.