Circumcision

[Pappy13]

Like I said, I don't think that earring studs is comparable to the permanent removal of a body part.  Do you really feel that those are comparable?

Absolutely.  It's a very minor procedure and yes I do believe it is aproximately the equivalent to getting earrings put in.

The question is why do you think it SHOULD be regulated?  Why is it NOT ok to leave the choice up to the parents?  You have the choice to do what you want.  The slippery slope is when you start trying to make decisions FOR people when they don't really need your help in making that determination.  It's not a question of quality of life. 

[Dave Gray]

I think that it should be illegal for the same reason that cutting off any other baby's body part should be illegal.  I think it should also be illegal (which it is) to tattoo a baby.  It is society's job to protect children, because they can't do it themselves.

I'm really surprised to see you saying that earring piercing is comparable to the permanent removal of the end of your penis.  I don't see it that way...not even close.

[Pappy13]

I think that it should be illegal for the same reason that cutting off any other baby's body part should be illegal.  I think it should also be illegal (which it is) to tattoo a baby.  It is society's job to protect children, because they can't do it themselves.

What are you protecting them from?  It's never been established that it does any harm to the child except for very slight risk of infection that can be easily cured, much like earrings.  Many hospitals use an analgesia to numb the penis so there is very little pain associated with doing the procedure, again much like earrings.

I'm really surprised to see you saying that earring piercing is comparable to the permanent removal of the end of your penis.  I don't see it that way...not even close.

Have you seen the procedure performed?  Have you seen the penis of a child that just recently had it done?  I have.  It's slightly worse than having studs put in your ears but only slightly.  It's less invasive than having a tattoo.

[CF DolFan]

I have a friend who was born in Cuba and was never circumcised.   A few years ago, at 40, he decided to have it done.  I am circumcised, as are both my sons; but I was shocked by this.  After it was over, I asked him if it was worth it.  He said it absolutely was.   I didn't ask for the details, but he volunteered that he felt it was cleaner and he regretted not having it done years before.

Holy crap!!!! That's a tough SOB there!!

I think that it should be illegal for the same reason that cutting off any other baby's body part should be illegal.  I think it should also be illegal (which it is) to tattoo a baby.  It is society's job to protect children, because they can't do it themselves.

So are you against abortion too Dave or does the parents choice outweigh the child in that situation?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Dave --

You are the one on a slippery slope by comparing it to tattooing and not earrings.

Circumcision has limited medical benefits and extremely rare incidence of complications.  Tattoos have zero medical benefits and multiple and common number of medical complications including death.   Furthermore while some states prohibit minors from getting tattoos others have no such restriction or REQUIRE PARENTAL PERMISSION.  

As for you opinion children under 2 can not remember pain.  You dead wrong.  While children under 2 may not maintain a conscious memory of pain into adulthood they definitely remember pain.  That is why if you go to any pediatrics office you will notice that multiple children begin crying as soon as they get to the office.  They remember previous inoculations and didn't enjoy the experience.  My nephew probably won't remember his baptism into adulthood but he definitely remembered the experience at bath time.  

With earrings you are removing skin and causing a hole in a person's body.  There isn't much difference.  

[Jim Gray]

Holy crap!!!! That's a tough SOB there!!

Yeah, I don't think I could have done it.  He did have to soak the undercarriage in ice for a few days.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

So are you against abortion too Dave or does the parents choice outweigh the child in that situation?

Please don't answer that or make it another thread.  An abortion debate will completely derail this thread.  

[Sunstroke]

As for you opinion children under 2 can not remember pain.  You dead wrong.  While children under 2 may not maintain a conscious memory of pain into adulthood they definitely remember pain.  That is why if you go to any pediatrics office you will notice that multiple children begin crying as soon as they get to the office.  They remember previous inoculations and didn't enjoy the experience.

Pretty big leap there...as a child crying in a pediatrics office might simply be the result of that child not being comfortable in strange surroundings, or experiencing discomfort from whatever medical issue has them at the pediatrics office in the first place...or that child picking up on any fear or worry that their accompanying parent might be feeling.

Not going to argue that a child doesn't remember pain, because I'm 100% certain that they do. I'm just saying that the portions of your statement that I bolded appear to be incorrectly blanket-esque in form.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Pretty big leap there...as a child crying in a pediatrics office might simply be the result of that child not being comfortable in strange surroundings, or experiencing discomfort from whatever medical issue has them at the pediatrics office in the first place...or that child picking up on any fear or worry that their accompanying parent might be feeling.

Okay....my sister started crying whenever we pulled into the parking lot was the strange surroundings.  Amazing how it always stopped as we left the office and headed down to ice cream shop afterwards, which we ONLY went after doctor visits and was equally as unfamiliar.  (granted she was a bit older at this point)  But even when old enough to know it was not her who was seeing the doctor but a sibling and she was just along for the ride and was getting ice cream afterwards would cry and need to be literally dragged by my mom.  Kids pretty quickly associate doctors/hospitals with pain.  Even if not consciously remembered it is remains in the subconscious.  Most people hate going to doctors or hospitals even if they know it won't involve a painful procedure. 

Maybe a leap for some of the kids.  But it does explain why you very rarely see a happy baby in a doctors waiting room.  When compounded with the other possible reasons for their crying.   

[Buddhagirl]

This is a slippery-slope argument that you're making.  I don't consider ear-piercing as body multilation, because it's not a permanent thing. 

I don't really have an opinion on circumcision, but I just want to hop in and say that my ears were pierced when I was maybe a month or so old. (In the doctors office.) I don't wear earrings really and my holes have never closed. (I'm honestly indifferent to my pierced ears.)

[StL FinFan]

I don't really have an opinion on circumcision, but I just want to hop in and say that my ears were pierced when I was maybe a month or so old. (In the doctors office.) I don't wear earrings really and my holes have never closed. (I'm honestly indifferent to my pierced ears.)

Same here except mine were done as a teen.

As far as circumcision, we spoke about it before we had kids (we have no sons).  I read a lot about it and decided either way was not damaging, so I left it up to him.  He said he would have had it done if we had a son because parents he knew that did not have it done said it was a bitch to keep clean.

My nephew had a physical abnormality that was corrected using his foreskin when he was 18 months old.  He had it since birth, but the doctor told them to wait (I don't remember the reason, maybe it could have changed).  He was anesthetized for the procedure and did not seem uncomfortable in the least during the healing process.  Maybe he is just tough, I don't know.

[AZ Fins Fan 55]

I have never given it much thought as I am and my son is as well. To me it was normal to be circumcised so that was that.

On a different note Dave stated that female circumcision was popular back then......I honestly have never heard of this and I am almost curious as to what is done. 

[badger6]

Ok, I guess that I'm gonna have to be the odd man out. I am not circumcised and I am glad that I am not. As far as any of the benefits that circumcision supposedly gives, I've never had any problems and from what I've read most guys will never have those problems, circumcised or not. As far as the keeping it clean part, I've never had a problem with that either. I'm sure that if a person showers every day or two that won't be a problem.

There is one con, sometimes the skin will roll over the head and that is sort of uncomfortable because you get no air circulation. But then again on a counter point you need no lube when flogging the dolphin or getting a HJ. Speaking of flogging the dolphins, how bout them browns, bwahahaha, (pun intended).

I could care less if anyone does it or not, that ain't my business. I'm not religious in any sense of the word, so that doesn't play a part in how I feel about it. I see it as a useless cosmetic procedure and a waste of money.

As for me, I only have a daughter. But if I had a son (probably won't), I don't think that I would choose to get him cut !


On a side note, when my daughter was 2-3 years old. My dumb-ass ex wife got her ears pierced and the damn studs grew into her ears and she had to get them cut out. Then when that was fixed and healed she was sleeping and her stud type earring got caught in a lace pillow on the sofa. My daughter then proceeded to freak out and start yanking and pulling the pillow away from her head until her ear was a bloody mess. My daughter will be 13 years old in a few months and to this day will not get her ears pierced. I can't guarantee it, but I think those 2 incidents when she was young kinda fucked with her head regarding earrings. I don't advocate doing cosmetic procedures to children until they are old enough to decide that they want it done. After all, they gotta live with it.

[Pappy13]

On a different note Dave stated that female circumcision was popular back then......I honestly have never heard of this and I am almost curious as to what is done. 

You DON'T want to know.  I don't believe it was ever popular in the US.  It's popular in Africa.

If you just have to know check out wikipedia.  Note that the politically correct term is Female Genital cutting or Female Genital Mutilation.  It's not called Female Circumcision anymore because it has little to do with the procedure done to males.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting

[Pappy13]

I don't advocate doing cosmetic procedures to children until they are old enough to decide that they want it done. After all, they gotta live with it.

I don't advocate it either, but that's a huge difference from regulating it for people.  If I felt you were endagering the childs welfare with the procedure, I could see it, but I don't think anyone thinks it's endangering the childs welfare.

On a side note, there's a procedure after a baby is born where they have to take a bunch of blood samples for various tests.  To get enough blood, they prick the heel of the baby and draw the blood onto a test pad.  They have to repeatedly prick the child to get enough blood.  My wife refused to take our children to have it done because it was so traumatic to her and the kids, so I had to take them.  I saw my son have the circumcision done and it was less painful than that test or at least it appeared to be.