Sal "Loser" Alosi

[Spider-Dan]

If they don't want people to stand there, then move the box.  Don't tell players "you can stand anywhere inside this line" and then point out instances where its not allowed.

If that's not what you want, move the line.

Brian, do you or do you not agree that the specific rule that I quoted says that non-player personnel are prohibited from making unnecessary physical contact with players?  I'm not interested in discussing what you think the rules should be for people standing out-of-bounds, I'm interested in what they ARE.

You keep arguing about sidelines and boundaries, but that's irrelevant; coaches are not allowed to make unnecessary physical contact with opponents, anywhere, period.  Standing there and directly watching a player barrel at you full speed, while you make no attempt whatsoever to move, is making unnecessary physical contact.  Intentionally placing yourself in a position where such contact is likely to occur, then standing and watching it occur, is blatantly making unnecessary physical contact.  How can you argue otherwise with a straight face?

[masterfins]

I see both your points, but I think there is a bit of a gray area in the rules.  If the Jets players are standing still (not sticking out legs, hitting, or checking) when an opposing player runs into them, then its hard to say the Jet player made the unnecessary contact when they were the ones hit.  On the other hand the players did line up to slow down a player returning to the field, without an overt act.  This is the type of thing that you shouldn't have to make a rule about (like specifically saying in the rules you have to make an effort to move), just another example of Rex Ryan's lack of class.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Brian, do you or do you not agree that the specific rule that I quoted says that non-player personnel are prohibited from making unnecessary physical contact with players?  I'm not interested in discussing what you think the rules should be for people standing out-of-bounds, I'm interested in what they ARE.

You keep arguing about sidelines and boundaries, but that's irrelevant; coaches are not allowed to make unnecessary physical contact with opponents, anywhere, period.  Standing there and directly watching a player barrel at you full speed, while you make no attempt whatsoever to move, is making unnecessary physical contact.  Intentionally placing yourself in a position where such contact is likely to occur, then standing and watching it occur, is blatantly making unnecessary physical contact.  How can you argue otherwise with a straight face?

The rules say that they can not make unnecessary physical contact with the plays.  We all agree that the one that did make unnecessary contact (Sal Alosi) violated the rules.  You are arguing that the 5 players that did NOT make contacts still made unnecessary contact.  Spider, how do you make unnecessary contract without making contact?

[Spider-Dan]

The same way they can eject a player for throwing a punch and missing?

I keep coming back to the same point over and over: intent matters.  If the Patriots set up cameras to tape opponents' practices, but the opponent never actually practiced in front of the cameras, and the league found out about it, do you think they would just say, "Oh well, no harm, no foul!"

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

A  family member of one of the Jets team members has stated it was done on purpose. 

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/dolphins/ex-miami-dolphin-zach-thomas-says-dirty-deed-1122207.html

[Pappy13]

If they don't want people to stand there, then move the box.  Don't tell players "you can stand anywhere inside this line" and then point out instances where its not allowed.

Why not?  The box is intended to keep players not in the game from going anywhere they want, it's not intended to tell them they can do anything they want as long as they are inside the box.

In baseball theres coaches boxes at first and third base, however if a player comes into the box, the coach has to move out of the way of play.  Please tell me why this is a bad rule?  Why should we move the box just because one coach decided he wasn't going to move?  That's ridiculous.

It's the exact same situation in football.  The box merely keeps players not in the game from going all the way down the sideline or onto the field.  It doesn't prevent a player who is in the game from going into the box.  It happens and it's allowed.  Players not in the game don't have exclusive rights to the box.  Players in the game are allowed into that box as well and they have the right of way.

[bsfins]

I'm not sure if this got posted,and this thread and the Zach thread seem to be the same topic...
The Jets think it was orchstrated,and suspend him indefinitely...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/football/nfl/12/15/sal-alosi-wall.ap/index.html?eref=sihp

[Dave Gray]

UPDATE FROM NFL LIVE:

The Jets have moved his suspension to "indefinitely" when new information came out that Alosi instructed players to stand on the line.  Alosi changed his story.  At first he said he didn't form a wall, now he's saying he did.

The Jets are denying any Rex Ryan or Westhoff involvement, though I don't know.

With this new information, that this was premeditated, I think that an outright firing is fair.

[Pappy13]

With this new information, that this was premeditated, I think that an outright firing is fair.

I'm pretty sure he won't be back next year which is pretty much the same thing.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Dave it gets better.  

Jets are now blaming the NEPs for Alosi tripping a Dolphin.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/15/westhoff-accuses-patriots-of-building-sideline-wall-too/

[Jim Gray]

Wonder why they didn't just fire him?  

I love the speculation on some other forums that they can't fire him because Rex or Mike Westhoff was really behind it, and he will cover for them as long as he has a job.  Man, if that was true.........what a Christmas present for Dolphin fans.

[Spider-Dan]

The firestorm continues. 

Right now, Mike Westhoff is simultaneously claiming that:

a) he had no idea that this kind of thing was happening on his sideline EVERY GAME and he is shocked, shocked I say, to hear it

AND

b) New England and some other teams do it all the time, so what's the big deal, guys?

So we are to believe that he knew that other teams were doing this, but he knew absolutely nothing about his own guys doing it?

Burn, baby, burn.

[MikeO]

building a wall isn't against the rules. TRIPPING A GUY IS!!

In fact the teams that don't build a wall are stupid!!

This is the Jets problem they don't know when to shut up. The guy tripped a player. Suspend him like they did. Fine him like they did. Then shut the hell up about it and move on. They don't, they keep this losing battle going. It's a battle they won't and can't win

[Dave Gray]

It is against the rules.  Though you're allowed to stand there, intentionally making contact or impeding players is specifically against the rules.  Since that is the point of building a wall, it is de facto against the rules, as well.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

The firestorm continues. 

Right now, Mike Westhoff is simultaneously claiming that:

a) he had no idea that this kind of thing was happening on his sideline EVERY GAME and he is shocked, shocked I say, to hear it

AND

b) New England and some other teams do it all the time, so what's the big deal, guys?

So we are to believe that he knew that other teams were doing this, but he knew absolutely nothing about his own guys doing it?

Burn, baby, burn.

Also his accusation against NE is a bit interesting...he accuses the defense of lining up when the Patriots punt.  

They aren't building a wall.  They are getting ready to take the field.  I bet NE offense does the same thing when the other team punts.