Time for Tony Sparano to put up or shut up.

[Sunstroke]

^^^ Now THIS is the type of discussion I love getting into...openly exchanging ideas and opinions, with nary a name being called or a person being attacked. Oh joy, oh bliss, oh message board rapture!

I agree on the "not all retreads are bad" sentiment, but the odds certainly favor "not" having success with a retread coach. In situations where we know that a head coach is being replaced, I'd really prefer to find some "wunderkind" who is rapidly rising up the coaching ranks, and give THAT guy his shot at a HC position before I go with a retread just because he has name recognition. Regardless of whether a team looks to a new young gun HC or an older retread, one thing is certain (imo)...the more talent that a team has on the roster, the better chance "any" new coach will have for success once he gets the job.

That said, the only team I'm really hoping for a HC change is my 49ers.  I love Mike Singletary's fire, but he seems out of his depth when it comes to game planning and getting his team prepared for opponents.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

, I'd really prefer to find some "wunderkind" who is rapidly rising up the coaching ranks, and give THAT guy his shot at a HC position

You mean like Josh McDanials?

There isn't a certain class that is more likely at success or failure....be it stealing a successful young OC/DC, retread, college coaches,  etc.  The important thing is to find the right person.

[Pappy13]

I love Mike Singletary's fire, but he seems out of his depth when it comes to game planning and getting his team prepared for opponents.

This is exactly how I feel about Sparano.  What's worse is that to me he compensates by stressing not making mistakes and playing conservatively figuring that as long as they don't do anything to lose the game, they will win it.  

I want the guy who almost thinks too highly of himself.  Will call risky plays because he's confident the team can execute it.  Will try to go for the jugular in games and go for it on 4th down because he's confident the team will make the play.  Instead of stressing over turnover's embraces them as a fact of life and uses them as teaching tools for improvement.

Yes, I want few turnovers, but not at the expense of having an aggressive game plan.

[Pappy13]

You mean like Josh McDanials?

The problem with a guy like McDaniels is that he should NEVER be in charge of personnel.  McDaniels mistakes have been in over valuing guys like Tim Tebow while under valuing guys like Brandon Marshall, Mike Nolan and Jay Cutler.  McDaniels needed a General Manager with veto power over him.  If he had that, he would have fared better.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

This is exactly how I feel about Sparano.  What's worse is that to me he compensates by stressing not making mistakes and playing conservatively figuring that as long as they don't do anything to lose the game, they will win it.  

I want the guy who almost thinks too highly of himself.  Will call risky plays because he's confident the team can execute it.  Will try to go for the jugular in games and go for it on 4th down because he's confident the team will make the play.  Instead of stressing over turnover's embraces them as a fact of life and uses them as teaching tools for improvement.

Yes, I want few turnovers, but not at the expense of having an aggressive game plan.

I think you are mixing two things here.  I think you would be hard pressed to find a HC more obsessed about avoiding turnovers on offense than BB.  Likewise there aren't many (maybe any) that goes for it on 4th more often then him. 

[Pappy13]

I think you are mixing two things here.  I think you would be hard pressed to find a HC more obsessed about avoiding turnovers on offense than BB.  Likewise there aren't many (maybe any) that goes for it on 4th more often then him. 

So you're telling me that BB DOESN'T have an aggressive offense?  No he does.  But he thinks you can have an aggressive offense and still have low turnovers.  That's what I want.  I don't believe that Tony Sparano really believes that or at least he doesn't teach it.  That's why he'll punt on 4th and 1 when BB won't because BB is aggressive.  Sparano is safe.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

So you're telling me that BB DOESN'T have an aggressive offense?  No he does.  But he thinks you can have an aggressive offense and still have low turnovers.  That's what I want.  I don't believe that Tony Sparano really believes that or at least he doesn't teach it.  That's why he'll punt on 4th and 1 when BB won't because BB is aggressive.  Sparano is safe.

This really moving off topic. 

But BB has an incredibly safe offense the is year.  You are thinking of 2007.  This year is dominated by short passes and TE formations.  The longest TD pass of Bears game was an act of mutiny.  BB called for Brady to take a knee to end the first half.  Brady changed the play at the line and Branch scored a TD. 

What makes this years offense so powerful is that nobody has the personal to defend it, not that it is aggressive.  We have three tight ends, two outstanding slot receivers and a shifty running back that can catch the ball.   So BB can create mismatches with the linebackers and TE or CB that is build to defend a #1 deep route WR covering a slot guy. 

And three AFCE teams have built their entire defense around the concept of needing to shut down Randy Moss. 

[Pappy13]

This really moving off topic. 

Agreed, so I'll make my reply short.  (sort of..this is short for me.)

BB's offense this year is predicated on his team's strengths.  When he had Moss, he had no qualms about throwing downfield, now he doesn't have the personnel to do it, but he has the TE's.

Tony had Ginn and Henne last year.  Henne has the arm to throw it deep and Ginn has the wheels, but how many attempts were there?  Few.

Now you might say that's because Henne and Ginn aren't anything like Brady and Moss and I would agree, but that begs the question is that the chicken or the egg?  In other words did Brady and Moss make BB or did BB make Brady and Moss?  There's a little truth to both but I think you get my point.  I felt like Henne and Ginn should have been better at stretching the field last year and part of that problem was Sparano.  I also felt that Henne and Marshall should have been more effective this year and part of that problem was also Sparano.  It's not all his fault, but it's not just because Henne and Marshall suck either.

[bsfins]

For good or bad, I feel we had a regime change,when Parcells left the building...The trifecta,turned into a two headed monster,and perhaps a more unified direction....

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Moss and Brady are better than Henne and Ginn.  No point discussing that.  

Brady is a question mark of how much of it is BB.  He has only played with BB so what he would do with another coach is pure speculation.

Moss OTOH the 07 Patriots and the 98 Viking, all time #1 and #2 offenses.  Randy was part of both so we know Randy can be great.  The only thing that was on BB was his ability to keep Randy in line and motivated.  Not minimizing that as a feat, multiple people have failed at that.  

OTOH, we can definitely say BB is infinitely better at utilizing Wes Welker than the Dolphins were.  Or Danny Woodhead than the Jets.

So moving onto Ginn...  If Sparono was truly handicapping Ginn you would expect that his yards would go up in SF, but they went down.  Likewise,  Pennington has three seasons where he started 13 or more games.  If Sparono can't come up with an effective offense you would expect his worst would be the one with the Fins.  But it was his best.  

We don't know if another coach could get more out of Henne.  Be we do know Sparono got more out of Penny than the Jets and more out of Ginn than SF.  

[Pappy13]

Moss OTOH the 07 Patriots and the 98 Viking, all time #1 and #2 offenses.  Randy was part of both so we know Randy can be great.

Don't forget that he was also a part of the Raiders and didn't look so hot.  So again you have to ask yourself if it's the player or the team/coach.

So moving onto Ginn...  If Sparono was truly handicapping Ginn you would expect that his yards would go up in SF, but they went down.

Only if you believe that SF has a better team/coach.  I don't think so.

Likewise,  Pennington has three seasons where he started 13 or more games.  If Sparono can't come up with an effective offense you would expect his worst would be the one with the Fins.  But it was his best.

Had a lot to do with the schedule he was playing coming off a 1-15 season.  A conservative offense actually worked well against that lineup of bottom feeders.  When they got to the playoffs, the Ravens feasted off of Pennington like he was a rookie starting his first game.

Want to see the schedule Miami played in 2008?

They beat the Patriots (without Tom Brady and using the wildcat), San Diego, Buffalo twice, Denver, Seattle, Oakland, St. Louis, San Francisco, Kansas City and the Jets.

They lost to the Jets, Arizona, Houston, Baltimore (and again in the playoffs) and New England. 

They played I think 2 games against playoff teams and lost both of them badly and then got beat badly in the playoffs as well.  They squeeked by Seattle, Oakland, St. Louis and San Francisco by 3, 2, 4 and 5 points respectively.

That was NOT a great 11-5 team as you have pointed out.  Sparano made it work and I'll give him credit for that, but now we need someone who can play a tough schedule and get us into the playoffs.  Sparano hasn't shown he can do that the passed 2 years.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Don't forget that he was also a part of the Raiders and didn't look so hot.  So again you have to ask yourself if it's the player or the team/coach.

You cut on the part where I credited BB for keeping Moss focused and in line.  But it doesn't take a PhD in football to tell Randy run down the field. 

 we need someone who can play a tough schedule and get us into the playoffs. 

You need multiple people. Name one position where you have a clear edge over the Jets personnel wise other than punter. That's on Ireland not Sparano. 

[dolfan13]

but now we need someone who can play a tough schedule and get us into the playoffs.  Sparano hasn't shown he can do that the passed 2 years.

i just don't get why folks attribute so much of execution on gameday to the head coach and coaching staff. i haven't seen sparano run, catch, throw, tackle, cover, anyone on sundays for the dolphins.

people put way too much into what a coach can actually do. like they have some magical powers or something. it's funny how when meyer loses his star players to the nfl, he only wins 7 games. mack brown, he can't win the big one, can't beat oklahoma, gets vince young and mccoy, and unbelievably wins? now he has a bunch a crappy players and can't coach again. on and on... chizik gets cam newton, and everyone forgets the god awful teams he had at iowa state

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

i haven't seen sparano  tackle,  anyone on sundays for the dolphins.

Once again edge goes to the Jets coaching staff.   

[dolfan13]

zing!