Time for Tony Sparano to put up or shut up.

[MikeO]

No Mike you are the one who derails the threads.  This one was going well until you returned. 

Go back and read the back and forth between me and Pappy.  We disagree but we have a respectable conversation.  Then compare that to the crap you spew. 

Once again. NO. I added my opinon in a respectful way until "someone" started in with "it not sinking in yet".....because I didn't agree with the majority.

Go back and re-read the thread from PAGE 1 of this thread. And it is clear WHO and WHEN this thread got de-railed. And bro,.....it wasn't me!

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Can't have a civil debate with someone..... so lets BAN HIM! lol

Yup, standard procedure at most boards....if you a poster won't engage in a civil debate they get banned. 

[MikeO]

Yup, standard procedure at most boards....if you a poster won't engage in a civil debate they get banned. 

Which means no cursing. No attacking people for their views. Stating an opinion and dismissing someone elses isn't any violation of anything.

Its a sad state of affairs when some people just can't "agree to disagree".

[Tenshot13]

I would also keep Sparano over Gruden or Fox and would add that I'd keep him over Fisher as well.  I really don't think Fox is a good coach.  .511 winning percentage?  Pathetic.  Sparano has a .566.  Yup, that's better than Fox.  Gruden has a .540.  Yup, Sparano has a better winning percentage than Gruden too.  Jeff fisher has a .544.  Hmm, Sparano is better yet again.  Cowher is the only one out the four with a better winning percentage (.623), so I could see an argument for him, but I don't agree with it. 

I think we have to give Sparano more than 3 years to prove himself.  If owners didn't give these other coaches a chance and were impatient with them, then they wouldn't have the accolades they have right now. Gruden was 8-8 his first two years before making the playoffs. 

Fox is as inconsistent as it gets.  2002 missed the playoffs, 2003 made the playoffs, 2004 missed the playoffs, 2005 made the playoffs, 2006 missed the playoffs, 2007 missed the playoffs, 2008 made the playoffs, 2009 missed, 2010 worst record in football.

As far as Fisher goes, he didn't make the playoffs until his SIXTH YEAR COACHING!  Imagine if he did that in Miami?  He would have been gone a long time ago.

I think we definitely need to give Sparano some more time.

This is my attempt to save this thread.  MikeO or whoever, respond to the above quote.  I put some work into looking up the stats, so I'd like an alternate opinion to it, especially from MikeO because it opposes his opinion.  Can we discuss it instead of saying back and forth who derailed what?

[MikeO]

All 4 of those guys have been to the Super Bowl. Gruden and Cowher won one. Fox was damn close to beating the Pats in the SB. Fisher was 1 yard away from taking the SB to overtime against one of the great offensive teams in the NFL of all time. These guys have proven track records. Have won big post-season games.

Winning percentages don't tell the whole story. Those 4 guys have coached far longer than 3 years so of course their winning percentage will be lower, they have coached far more games. Every coach will have a bad season or two when they have coached for near a decade or so. So you gotta step back and look at the big picture and a guys entire resume.

Sparano can't win home games. I have no faith he will ever win a postseason game. I mean if you can't win on your homefield, thats not a good sign. And in Sparano's 3 years in the NFL his teams seem to be getting worse. Look at the other coaches who were hired around the same time as Sparano. Mike Smith, division titles, playoffs, best record in the NFC this year. Mike Tomlin, SUPER BOWL champ,  Rex Ryan, 2 playoff apperances (counting this year their going) and an AFC Championship game apperance. And Atlanta and the Jets were just as bad as Miami was when they took over. Sparano can't even COMPARE to those guys. Let alone Gruden, Fisher, Cowher, and Fox!

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Winning percentages don't tell the whole story.

Isn't your biggest beef with Sparano that he hasn't won enough games.  I happen to be a big believer in the Parcells approach...you are what your record says you are.  Sparano has better record than three of the coaches you listed.

Those 4 guys have coached far longer than 3 years so of course their winning percentage will be lower,
 they have coached far more games.

While I have not done a complete statistical breakdown.  Based on my eyeballing win % and number of games coached there seems to be a very strong correlation between the two and the longer you coach the higher the win %.  Not saying that is cause and affect (actually I think it is the reverse) but your "so of course" completely misses the mark.

However, more years do mean more chances to make the playoffs. 

Every coach will have a bad season or two when they have coached for near a decade or so. So you gotta step back and look at the big picture and a guys entire resume.

This is true.  You need to look at the big picture.  And one aspect of the big picture is that very rarely do coaches start out by winning the SB there first three years as a head coach.  Shula didn't Belichick didn't.  Gruden only had one winning season of his first three.  Fox only had one winning season of his first three.  Fisher had no winning seasons of his first three. 

Sparano can't win home games.

The Dolphins have struggled at home this year.  However, the Titans game disproves that statement. 

I have no faith he will ever win a postseason game.

Its not about what you have faith in.  I have no faith you will ever write a post based on facts and not just what your gut tells you.    I am pretty sure Sunstroke has the same lack of faith. 

I mean if you can't win on your homefield, thats not a good sign.

Relevancy?  But he is a hell of a road coach to make up for it.  Maybe the Dolphins should get co-head coaches.  Sparano can coach on the road.  Someone else at home.     Or build a flimsy dome have it colpse and play ALL 16 games on the road. The Dolphins will go undefeated.    While division games matter more, home games don't matter more than road games.  A win is a win, a loss is a loss.  Both the Pats and Fins are 1-1 vs the Jets.  Zero relevancy that NE got their win at home and Fins got there on the road.   

And in Sparano's 3 years in the NFL his teams seem to be getting worse.

Unless the next three games are 0-3 he will have a better record this year than last.  He won't have a worse record.

Look at the other coaches who were hired around the same time as Sparano. Mike Smith, division titles, playoffs, best record in the NFC this year. Mike Tomlin, SUPER BOWL champ,  Rex Ryan, 2 playoff apperances (counting this year their going) and an AFC Championship game apperance. And Atlanta and the Jets were just as bad as Miami was when they took over.

As you are including coaches hired the same year as Sparano or with in a year...here are some of his other peers Mangini, Childress, Linehane, Marinelli, Kiffin, Zorn, Cable, Morris, Schwartz, Spagnuolo. 

Sparano can't compare with those guys either.  And with the exception of Schwartz all of them inherited a team that was better than the one Sparano inherited.  (Based on the only real measure used in the NFL and the one you constantly site W-L).

[masterfins]

^^^nice factual post!!

[Frimp]

Why Cowher runs a 3-4 defense and would love to have Nolan. Gruden is an offensive guy and lets his defensive coach run any defense he wants. Fisher has been around long enough to keep a good coach like Nolan around and not let him walk. Fox would maybe be the only coach who wouldn't want Nolan. But still, I would part with Nolan if it means I get Fox.

Wow. That is easily the most ridiculous thing ever posted here.

John Fox's first 3 years with the Panthers:

CAR 2002 7 9 0 .438 4th in NFC South - - - -
CAR 2003 11 5 0 .688 1st in NFC South
CAR 2004 7 9 0 .438 3rd in NFC South


Granted, his second season was a Super Bowl loss, I'm sure you would have been calling for his head at this point in the third season, calling it a Super Bowl hangover and bla bla bla. much like you are with Sparano...and by the way, Fox is 1-11 now. Not to mention the fact at the end of this season, Sparano will have more wins than Fox at that point.

[Tenshot13]

I was going to post a rebuttal to MikeO's post, but Hoodie pretty much pointed out everything I was going to post.  Good job Hoodie.

[MikeO]

You guys all must be related to Sparano or something. Giving this guy so much praise for him accomplishing nothing. It's comical the guys you are comparing him too.

Once again (just like with Jason Allen) you can't see the forest from the trees.  You are blinded by your "homerism" when it comes to this team.

We will see at the end of this year. Cause either Sparano gets an extension. Or he gets fired. Ross knows bringing Sparano back as a lame duck coach with no extension is a recipe for disaster.

[BigDaddyFin]

I don't think we'd be doing ourselves any good to let Sparano go. 

[MikeO]

A big clue as to what Sparano's future will be (aside from winning in these final games)

I know technically these final 2 HOME games are "sold out". But lets see how many people actually show up. If the stadium is half empty, thats not good for Tony.

Playing games in front of a half-empty stadium. Where people aren't at the games spending money which in turn makes Ross money. Not a good thing for Sparano!

[Tenshot13]

You guys all must be related to Sparano or something. Giving this guy so much praise for him accomplishing nothing. It's comical the guys you are comparing him too.

Once again (just like with Jason Allen) you can't see the forest from the trees.  You are blinded by your "homerism" when it comes to this team.

We will see at the end of this year. Cause either Sparano gets an extension. Or he gets fired. Ross knows bringing Sparano back as a lame duck coach with no extension is a recipe for disaster.

I give Sparano praise for getting us to the playoffs his first year and winning the division.  That's a great accomplishment.  I give him no praise for the following year, as it was a set back, but was expected.  This year, There is a possibility that we finish 10-6 and may have a slight chance of getting into the playoffs.  Anyway you look at it, there is a small possibility we finish 7-9 like last year.  More than likely we finish 9-7 or 10-6 and miss the playoffs.  That is an improvement from the year prior, so I believe it warrants at least another year.

As far as you saying "he hires the assistants, and since we've already gotten rid of a d-coordinator, a ST coach and, after this year, a offensive coach, I point to Raheem Morris of the Bucs.  His first year, he did the same thing.  His team is playing pretty damn good football for how young they are...just a little younger than the team we have currently.  I'm not saying Sparano is great, even though all the other coaches have all their accolades, I'm just saying we need to give Sparano a chance to get his.  He's a young head coach.  He's going to make mistakes, all young coaches do.  Next year is make or break for him in my opinion, but I think we have to give him that next year.  3 years just isn't enough.  Let our young guys develop a little more.

[MikeO]

I think fans sometime put too much thought into stuff.  Bringing up Chemistry, "having the lockerroom", developing young guys...etc. Owners care about 2 things "R & R". Results and Revenue!! As long as the team is winning and there is a fanny every 18 inches on Sunday's in their stadium, the head coach is safe.

When your not winning and the stadium is half emtpy, the Head Coach should start getting nervous.

If Sparano wins out and we win 10 games (playoffs or not), he's safe. That's reality!!!! That doesn't mean  Sparano will ever win us a Super Bowl (which is the ultimate goal) because I don't see him on that level as a head coach. It just means he did enough to warrant NOT getting fired this year. If we end up with 8 or 9 wins, in my opinion that isn't enough. Going from 7 wins, spending a boat load of money on Dansby and Marshall isn't good enough and shouldn't be good enough. If those 2 players only mean we are 1 or 2 wins better then something is seriously wrong!

Win out and this isn't even a topic of debate. Sparano stays. If he doesn't win out he should be fired. I think the best thing Sprano has going for him is the lockout. If there is a lockout no owner will want to hire a coach , a big-time coach who will be doing nothing as the league is in a stand-still for weeks and/or months

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

A big clue as to what Sparano's future will be (aside from winning in these final games)

I know technically these final 2 HOME games are "sold out". But lets see how many people actually show up. If the stadium is half empty, thats not good for Tony.

Playing games in front of a half-empty stadium. Where people aren't at the games spending money which in turn makes Ross money. Not a good thing for Sparano!

Let's separate the issues.  Are we discussing:

1) If Sparano ought be fired?

-Or-

2) Predict what Ross will do. 

Two separate discussions.  I am discussing #1.  As for #2 - I have no fucking clue. 

How many fans are going to show up for a game between a team that barely has playoff hopes with a fickle fan base that barely shows up when the team is doing well vs. a team that is completely out of it and has probably the worst traveling fan base on X-mas week is not a measure of the coach.  Granted coach's popularity could be a factor in Ross's decision. 

BTW - Yesterday there was over 800 tickets on ticket exchange for the Pats-Pack game.  Two teams are either in the playoffs or is very much in the hunt.  Most weeks a ticket on Pats ticket exchange has a life expectancy of 30 seconds.  Its X mas week.  Don't read too much into attendance rates.   

I think fans sometime put too much thought into stuff.

I am absolutely certain you never put enough thought into your posts. 

  Bringing up Chemistry, "having the lockerroom", developing young guys...etc. Owners care about 2 things "R & R". Results and Revenue!! As long as the team is winning and there is a fanny every 18 inches on Sunday's in their stadium, the head coach is safe.

When your not winning and the stadium is half emtpy, the Head Coach should start getting nervous.

This where the expression "That's why the fans don't run the team from" comes from.  If fans like you ran the team,  the team would have a new coach every year and a new QB every game. 

If Sparano wins out and we win 10 games (playoffs or not), he's safe. That's reality!!!!

Maybe, maybe not.  Neither you nor I, know what Ross's plans or criteria is for retaining Sparono.  That's reality!  Extra punctuation does not make your case stronger. 

 That doesn't mean  Sparano will ever win us a Super Bowl (which is the ultimate goal) because I don't see him on that level as a head coach.

I bet you didn't (or wouldn't have) seen Belichick "on that level as a head coach" after three years in Cleveland. 

It just means he did enough to warrant NOT getting fired this year. If we end up with 8 or 9 wins, in my opinion that isn't enough. Going from 7 wins, spending a boat load of money on Dansby and Marshall isn't good enough and shouldn't be good enough. If those 2 players only mean we are 1 or 2 wins better then something is seriously wrong!

Getting wins is difficult in the NFL.  If upgrading two players gets you two wins, you are doing damn good. 

Win out and this isn't even a topic of debate. Sparano stays.

Either way the question of "what will Ross do?" ends on the Monday or Tuesday after the Patriots game.  If he should have been fired will rage on all off-season, either way. 
 

If he doesn't win out he should be fired. I think the best thing Sprano has going for him is the lockout. If there is a lockout no owner will want to hire a coach , a big-time coach who will be doing nothing as the league is in a stand-still for weeks and/or months

There is actually there is a more compelling reason not to change coaches this year.  Decent odds that even if the season remains intact some OTAs, off season workouts and training camp will be canceled or greatly condensed.  This is not the year to introduce a new offensive or defensive system.