Why do people believe in astrology?

[Pappy13]

I have a movie that some of you may enjoy.  It's called "The man from Earth" (2007).  I just watched it over the weekend and found it very entertaining.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0756683/

Here's a plot summary:

"An impromptu goodbye party for Professor John Oldman becomes a mysterious interrogation after the retiring scholar reveals to his colleagues he is an immortal who has walked the earth for 14,000 years."

Almost the whole movie is shot in a cabin where several scholars have a conversation about many different topics including religion and the bible.  It's thought provoking.

[Dave Gray]

^ I saw that.

http://whatwouldjesusview.com/man-earth-2007.html

Thought provoking, like you said, but poor production values and dinner theater acting really hampered it.

[Pappy13]

^ I saw that.

http://whatwouldjesusview.com/man-earth-2007.html

Thought provoking, like you said, but poor production values and dinner theater acting really hampered it.

Overall I was disappointed with the acting, however I thought the lead David Lee Smith, did a terrific job and since he has most of the dialogue, the other actors/actresses didn't really bother me much.

One other small note, I absolutely hated Ellen Crawford in this movie, but it was her character that I hated, not her acting.  She does an absolutely horrid job as a Christian.  They really should have done a better job with the conversation revolving around the bible.  She made Christians look like idiots.  Yes there are some of those, but these people are suppose to be Scholars and her basic argument was "NUH-UH!".  Please.

[badger6]

You could equally well say that most of our basic laws stem from pure common sense; the need to coexist. That people with power introduced commandments, laws, codices or similar to encourage this behavior is not a surprise and would not seem to require the existence of religion.

I think that you are right on the money. I don't think that a book or a religion has to tell me not to kill people. It's common sense that killing people is not the right thing to do. Most of this stuff is common sense actually. The thing that gets me about most Christians is that they already have a built in excuse when they go against the what the bible says. "Everyone sins" or "God will forgive me" is the usual type thing or attitude. But someone that doesn't even believe in sin or god just has to man up and admit that they were wrong.

[Pappy13]

The thing that gets me about most Christians is that they already have a built in excuse when they go against the what the bible says.

Not all Christians necessarily think the Bible is the be all and end all of all things religious.  Many Catholics like myself never really studied the bible, most of what I learned, I learned from priests or nuns in sermons and class rooms.  Rarely did they ever read from the bible.  Most of what Catholics believe while rooted in the bible does not trace back directly to bible passages or scripture.  Like you said, most of it is common sense and if I were to put it into 1 general rule it would be do unto others as you would have done to you.  I don't think that's such a bad rule to live by.

[badger6]

Not all Christians necessarily think the Bible is the be all and end all of all things religious.  Many Catholics like myself never really studied the bible, most of what I learned, I learned from priests or nuns in sermons and class rooms.  Rarely did they ever read from the bible.  Most of what Catholics believe while rooted in the bible does not trace back directly to bible passages or scripture.  Like you said, most of it is common sense and if I were to put it into 1 general rule it would be do unto others as you would have done to you.  I don't think that's such a bad rule to live by.

That's why I said most and italicized, bolded, and underlined it, as I didn't want to offend or lump everyone into one group. There are Christians that I feel are really good people and I know quite a few. But from my experience, Christians live no better or cleaner a life than anyone else. Actually, to the contrary, they are more hypocritical and act like they are above other people. One example of many would be divorce. Here in the deep south most Christians say that they take what the says bible literally. But yet the divorce rate among Christians is equal to if not higher than non-Christians. Christianity teaches that divorce is either not allowed, or allowed under only very limited circumstances, such as marital infidelity. So why the disconnect ? The bible also teaches that if a Christian gets remarried that they are committing adultery as most divorces are not recognized by God.

The answer is that people can claim to be Christians, but in the end they pick and choose what rules they want to follow. Which in turn makes a mockery of christianity and  proves that they truly don't believe the religion that they choose to follow.

IMHO, most Christians are Christians because they have a problem accepting that death is the end of the show. I believe that they try to convert and recruit people into their own shaky belief system, because when it comes to religion, the more the merrier. Not to mention that the more sheep in the flock, the more wool the sheep can donate every Sunday !!!

[Phishfan]

I'm not a believer, but I have to comment on the post above. People are flawed so you can't condemn people who are Christians for not following everything in the Bible exactly. It is human nature to be flawed and as for picking and choosing, I believe the Bible has mention of stoning people doesn't it? I'm glad Christians have decided not to follow that one anymore.

[Pappy13]

That's why I said most and italicized, bolded, and underlined it, as I didn't want to offend or lump everyone into one group.

Sorry, I understood you to be referring to Christians that have a built in excuse.  I was merely pointing out that a large number of Christians don't follow the bible verbatim so therefore they would indeed have a very good excuse for not following certain things in the bible.

And yes you're correct that a lot of people that call themselves Christians don't practice every single tenet of their religion, but even if they practice most of them, it's probably better than not having any tenets to follow at all.

Christianity is not a "one size fits all" glove.  Everyone has to come to terms with what they believe.  That doesn't make it a mockery, it just means that everyone tries their best to incorporate their beliefs into their life.

By the way, stating that "God will forgive me" is not a non-admission of wrong doing, it's merely indicating that God will forgive the trespass.  We still have to "man up".  It's called confession.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[badger6]

I'm not a believer, but I have to comment on the post above. People are flawed so you can't condemn people who are Christians for not following everything in the Bible exactly. It is human nature to be flawed and as for picking and choosing, I believe the Bible has mention of stoning people doesn't it? I'm glad Christians have decided not to follow that one anymore.

You are correct. I don't condemn people for being flawed, it is our nature. Everyone makes mistakes. But a deliberate conscience decision is much different than a mistake. Christians are in the unique situation to say the same thing you are saying by saying that Jesus paid for my mistakes already, hence "we're all sinners" or "God forgives me".  So if a christian keeps on doing the same thing over and over and over as a conscience decision, are they still forgiven ? The hypocrisy of people telling other people how to live their lives, while at the same time making conscience decisions that go against the very thing they are preaching.

[StL FinFan]

According to what I have been taught, you are forgiven by God for anything.  The catch is that you have to be truly sorry and not just say the words.  I would assume someone who does the same thing over and over again is not truly sorry and therefore not forgiven.

[badger6]

Sorry, I understood you to be referring to Christians that have a built in excuse.  I was merely pointing out that a large number of Christians don't follow the bible verbatim so therefore they would indeed have a very good excuse for not following certain things in the bible.

Although, I am referring to most Christians in the deep south. Isn't The Bible the very basis of Christianity. I may be wrong but without the Bible there would be no basis for Christianity as we know it today.

And yes you're correct that a lot of people that call themselves Christians don't practice every single tenet of their religion, but even if they practice most of them, it's probably better than not having any tenets to follow at all.

But shouldn't they if they call themselves Christians ? The bible wants people to be "Christ Like". I think you and I know that is not really possible to be "Christ Like". But what percentage of Christians actually put forth a significant effort to be "Christ Like" ? Honestly ?

I don't believe in god, so therefore I don't practice any religious tenets. I consider myself to be just as good as a Christian. Why should anyone need a book to tell them what is right and what is wrong, since it's common sense ? Well OK, I will admit that my attitude and personality may not be as bubbly a Christian, but that's only because I'm a cynical asshole.

Christianity is not a "one size fits all" glove.  Everyone has to come to terms with what they believe.  That doesn't make it a mockery, it just means that everyone tries their best to incorporate their beliefs into their life.

But if that person is not following the rules that they agreed to when they signed up to be a christian, what does that tell you about their intentions ? Are they doing it just because they are scared of burning in hell ? I know you can't do it 100% of the time, but I believe that in life you do what you agree to do. If you say your gonna do something, do it. At least try to do it, don't half ass it. Especially something as big as religion. In the Bible all sins are equal. So if your going to lie, you might as well cheat, steal, and kill. Either you follow the rules you agreed to or you don't. I don't see a gray area in going to heaven or hell.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Since there is no proof of the existence of God at this time. And it is not possible to prove that God doesn't exist. Opinions are all there is, there is no right or wrong. I think that all religions were made up by man to control the masses with fear mongering and financial burden.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong also..................

[Pappy13]

Although, I am referring to most Christians in the deep south. Isn't The Bible the very basis of Christianity.

No, it's not.  That's what I have been trying to tell you.  Catholicism makes up a large part of the Christian faith and the bible is not the basis of Catholicism, it's merely one of it's references.  Faith in God himself is the basis of Catholicism. 

Since there is no proof of the existence of God at this time. And it is not possible to prove that God doesn't exist.

The definition of faith is believing in something without proof.  Some need proof before they will believe, others have faith.

[badger6]

According to what I have been taught, you are forgiven by God for anything.  The catch is that you have to be truly sorry and not just say the words.  I would assume someone who does the same thing over and over again is not truly sorry and therefore not forgiven.

So in your scenario. If a person got a divorce for irreconcilable differences. In the eyes of God they are still married to their ex spouse. Subsequently, they get remarried. Then in fact they are committing adultery every time they sleep with their new spouse. So since they commit the same sin over and over and are not truly sorry. They are not forgiven. If that's the case then a good percentage of Christians ain't gonna be forgiven. And then be BBQ for Satan, ha ha..........

[Pappy13]

So in your scenario. If a person got a divorce for irreconcilable differences. In the eyes of God they are still married to their ex spouse.

It is possible to get a marriage anulled through the Church which would allow you to remarry in the Church.  Most people don't go through the effort.

However not every person is even married in the Church and therefore is not recognized in the eyes of the Church.

Then in fact they are committing adultery every time they sleep with their new spouse. So since they commit the same sin over and over and are not truly sorry. They are not forgiven. If that's the case then a good percentage of Christians ain't gonna be forgiven. And then be BBQ for Satan, ha ha..........

Theoretically all that a person would need to do would be to confess his "sins" before he died to still make it to the pearly gates.  This is why they will often summon a priest when you are dieing, so that you can go meet your maker with a clean slate.  Of course you would have to be truly remorseful at that time.

[badger6]

No, it's not.  That's what I have been trying to tell you.  Catholicism makes up a large part of the Christian faith and the bible is not the basis of Catholicism, it's merely one of it's references.  Faith in God himself is the basis of Catholicism.

Although I was refering to Christianity as a whole, I do understand what you are saying. But faith can't set the rules for Christians to follow. The rules god laid down are in the bible. If they can't follow the rules in the book, they are not very faithful. Are they ?

The definition of faith is believing in something without proof.  Some need proof before they will believe, others have faith.
Catholicism

My point was that since there is no proof of the positive existence and you can't prove a negative, that your opinion can't be wrong, just like mine can't.

It is possible to get a marriage anulled through the Church which would allow you to remarry in the Church.  Most people don't go through the effort.

If most (the vast majority) people don't go through the effort to do it the right way then they are in fact still married in the eyes of god.

However not every person is even married in the Church and therefore is not recognized in the eyes of the Church.

Seems like your splitting hairs with me.

Eyes of the church or the eyes of God ? Are those the same 2 things ? Again, I'm talking about Christianity as a whole, not just one denomination. It doesn't really matter anyhow. If they are married in Las Vegas or Hawaii and God or the church doesn't recognize the marriage. They are committing fornication on a daily basis and not forgiven. Therefore upon death, spontaneous  combustion occurs as Lucifer walks in the room with his evil pet goat.

Theoretically all that a person would need to do would be to confess his "sins" before he died to still make it to the pearly gates.  This is why they will often summon a priest when you are dieing, so that you can go meet your maker with a clean slate.  Of course you would have to be truly remorseful at that time.

So your saying that a person can do whatever they want in life as long as they ask for forgiveness at the end. But a good percentage of people don't get that chance, not everyone knows when they will die. If a person knows the rules that the bible lays down and they break them over and over on a daily basis, all the while knowing that what they are doing is wrong, but waiting for the last day to ask for forgiveness.  Doesn't that seem like they were trying to get in as much selfish "against the rules" pleasure they could, before then saying as an afterthought "Oh sorry". Seems like an all knowing god would catch on to that scam from the get go. If a person claims to be a Christian, why not just do what God asks them to do and not try to skirt his laws and find loop holes. Does god go by the word of his law or the spirit of his law ?