Chicago Car Salesman Fired for Wearing Packers Tie to Work

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I don't think it's been pointed out that Illinois is a no fault state.  You can be fired for any reason as long as it does not fall into discrimination.

Packers fans could be considered a "minority" in Illinois.   

(Actually I think every state is like that.  Any one can be fired for any reason unless that reason is some sort of protected class - pregnant, gender, sex orientation (in some states), race, etc.) 

[badger6]

It makes it dumb for someone to wear something that would knowingly piss off their boss.  I've said before there was probably bad blood between them before this.  Maybe he did it on purpose so he could get fired and collect unemployment, rather than quitting and not be able to collect.

I agree that he should have just taken off the tie and diffused the situation. But on the other hand, football is just a game, not life or death. If someone lets themselves get that pissed off over a game, they have some issues. What if they guy just wouldn't have shut up about Green Bay. Would he still have been fired ? I bet he would have.

I thought that you had to fired through no fault of your own to draw unemployment. Shit, if it's as easy as just pissing off the boss to get fired and you get unemployment. There is a problem somewhere. Hell, what's it up to now ? 99 Weeks or something ridiculous like that ?

[StL FinFan]

Having been on unemployment, I can answer that.  Only if your former employer wants to make a case of it do you have to explain why you were terminated.  They have to prove you did not fulfill your duties as employee, such as written warnings, if they want you to be denied unemployment benefits.

[Spider-Dan]

Better stated, Spider -

What if you showed up to work wearing a tie that had a large naked woman on it?  Or perhaps swaztikas or pictures of KKK members.  I could see how that would be asked to be removed because they're OFFENSIVE.

Sorry, I reject your comparison.

Atheism and pornography are not equivalent.
Birtherism and Nazism are not equivalent.

Attempting to exercise a "right" to publicly display pornography would be an uphill battle for you; in contrast, there are already billboards and other public advertisements promoting atheism (and disparaging theism).

An employer that allowed an employee to openly wear Nazi symbolism would be subject to prosecution under the Civil Rights Act.  The same cannot be said for birtherism (or other political conspiracy theories).

If you're going to try to present counterexamples, you'll need to do better than that.  There is no grounds for finding atheism any more "offensive" than apparel from a rival sports team.

[Dave Gray]

Brian, I don't really get what ultimate point you're trying to make.

You don't have a "right" to work somewhere.  If you are asked to do something by your boss that's within reason (not degrading, harmful, etc.) and you don't do it, you get canned.

If the boss thought that the tie was bad for business and the guy didn't take it off, he's insubordinate and has to go.  I don't think all of these comparisons to other things are needed. 

[Brian Fein]

I'm questioning the motivation of the boss, that's all. 

People tend to be ultra sensitive about sportsmanship immediately following a big loss.  Especially in the NFC Championship game.  Especially to a bitter rival.  Especially at home.

I am simply stating, since two pages ago, that I HOPE the boss's motivation for asking for the guy to remove his tie is because he genuinely felt it was bad for business and would cost him a day's worth of car sales, and NOT because he is a Bears' season-ticket holder and die hard fan and didn't feel like looking at a tie with the logo of the team that just bounced his beloved Bears from the playoffs.

I agree that the dude is a moron for not simply removing the tie, but I also FIRMLY believe that its just a friggin' tie and has no REAL LIFE bearing on the business or the guy's ability to sell cars.

In the end it was poor taste and judgment by the guy, but I still question the boss's motivation.

[Pappy13]

If the manager sees that his employee has a tie that he considers to be gaudy, unprofessional and/or otherwise in bad taste, is he wrong to ask said employee to remove it?  Should the employee be able to refuse to comply with that request?

No and No.  Most places of business have a dress code, whether it's written down or just understood.  And if they try to enforce the dress code (within reason) and the employee refuses to comply (within reason) then I think it's grounds for discipline.  Every job I've had at the professional level, I've known going into it what was expected from a dress code perspective and agreed to it.  Maybe not everyone does that, but I don't think it's unreasonable for a business to try to enforce one within reason.  We are talking about a tie here.  There's ABSOLUTLY NO GOOD REASON THAT YOU CAN'T TAKE OFF A TIE. NONE!!!!  Now if we are talking about a shirt, then you can't order them to remove it, but I think sending them home to change is within reason. And if they refuse then they are willfully failing to comply with the business wishes and I think it is fair to discipline them for it.

[Brian Fein]

Does this place have a dress code that says "no Green Bay Packers clothing is allowed?"  If not, then he is not in violation.

However, he likely IS in violation to be on the sales floor without a tie.

[Pappy13]

Does this place have a dress code that says "no Green Bay Packers clothing is allowed?"  If not, then he is not in violation.

However, he likely IS in violation to be on the sales floor without a tie.

Some dress codes are not expressly written down and are more verbal in nature.  And I wouldn't be surprised at all if they had a rule that said it couldn't have any "brand names" or "advertising".  You could easily infer that a Green Bay Packers tie was in violation of that rule.

And if you have to wear a tie, then ask the guy to go home and find another one and come back.

[tepop84]

Does this place have a dress code that says "no Green Bay Packers clothing is allowed?"  If not, then he is not in violation.

However, he likely IS in violation to be on the sales floor without a tie.

First of all, this post is really terrible. 

Second, how can you not understand that he wasn't fired for his tie, he was fired for ignoring his bosses orders twice.

[Spider-Dan]

Does this place have a dress code that says "no Green Bay Packers clothing is allowed?"

I'm sure they have a dress code that states that the salesmen must wear professional attire.

The boss found his choice of attire unprofessional, given the circumstances (<--- this is important).

Open and shut.

[Brian Fein]

First of all, this post is really terrible. 

Not for anything, but coming from the guy that reports posts daily, posts like this are really not productive.

[Pappy13]

This just came out today in our daily "news posts".  It's a snippet about what is expected of you as a Southwest Airlines employee if you ride non-revenue on a Southwest plane.  Remember this is what is expected outside of your job.  As a Southwest employee you are eligible to ride free if there's room on a flight.  You could be going on vacation with your family to the bahamas and this STILL applies to you.

"Southwest’s dress code is relaxed and casual; however, you must present a clean, well-groomed and tasteful appearance.  You may not wear tank tops, spaghetti straps or strapless tops or dresses unless a sweater or jacket is worn over them. Neither low-cut, skimpy, or revealing clothing, nor torn or ragged pants or shorts are allowed.  Obviously, you must always wear shoes, and sandals are acceptable; but beach-type flip flops are not allowed.  When in doubt, don’t.  Take a few extra minutes to remind yourself that as a non-revenue traveler, you are representing yourself, and our entire Company."